Almost blarge

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Fair point. So the question could be do these qualify as two feet and facing. They're all roughly the same moment, just from different angles.

...and in the path...if you're not in the path, you're not even guarding, much less having legal guarding position.

Assuming you consider it in the path, the question that would answer that would be whether you would have called a block or a charge if the defender was just reaching that position simultaneous with contact. I don't think I've ever seen a charge called when a defender arrives and takes contact while still turned like that and takes the contact from the direction where the opponent is...he would have run into the side of his shoulder.

Unrelated, those angles show that the L has the most open view of that play while the C had to deal with #1 crossing his line of sight.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

...and in the path...if you're not in the path, you're not even guarding, much less having legal guarding position.

The defender would appear to be in the path since he's between A1 and the goal. The only way he's not in the path is if A1 wasn't heading to the goal.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Unrelated, those angles show that the L has the most open view of that play while the C had to deal with #1 crossing his line of sight.

I would argue there's no way for the L to know this unless C has the chance to make a call on the play but doesn't. As the video shows, C was coming out with a call but L reached out of his area to take the play. To me, this is the same situation as the Montverde/Simeon play posted in the other string. Let the guy who is supposed to call the play call it. Unless the NCAAM CCA manual differs from the NCAAW CCA manual on this, the C has the primary call on this because the play took place on his side of the floor.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

The defender would appear to be in the path since he's between A1 and the goal. The only way he's not in the path is if A1 wasn't heading to the goal.

The path is the direction the player is heading...which may or may not be directly to the basket. At that point, what direction was the player moving in? He was going to the right of the defender then cut back to go around the left side. The stills don't show the timing of that.

[jeschmit]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

The defender would appear to be in the path since he's between A1 and the goal. The only way he's not in the path is if A1 wasn't heading to the goal.



I would argue there's no way for the L to know this unless C has the chance to make a call on the play but doesn't. As the video shows, C was coming out with a call but L reached out of his area to take the play. To me, this is the same situation as the Montverde/Simeon play posted in the other string. Let the guy who is supposed to call the play call it. Unless the NCAAM CCA manual differs from the NCAAW CCA manual on this, the C has the primary call on this because the play took place on his side of the floor.

This is the C's call... In both NCAA-M and NCAA-W. The contact isn't even taken in the lane. Lead stretched, and when you make a call out of your area, you are more likely to be wrong than right.

[Rich]

This is just my opinion, but I think those who would call this a block expect too much from defenders.

[Tio]

This is a block. The defender overruns the angle then backtracks to try and take the charge and DOES NOT beat the offense to the spot. The offensive player makes a move to avoid the contact. Agree with Camron 100% that the defender doesn't get into the path in time.

If you don't see this when reviewing the top angle (0:23 seconds) we will have to agree to disagree on the outcome.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Tio

This is a block. The defender overruns the angle then backtracks to try and take the charge and DOES NOT beat the offense to the spot. The offensive player makes a move to avoid the contact. Agree with Camron 100% that the defender doesn't get into the path in time.

If you don't see this when reviewing the top angle (0:23 seconds) we will have to agree to disagree on the outcome.

A1 is not an airborne shooter and B1 beats him to the spot, so I have a PC.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Tio

This is a block. The defender overruns the angle then backtracks to try and take the charge and DOES NOT beat the offense to the spot. The offensive player makes a move to avoid the contact. Agree with Camron 100% that the defender doesn't get into the path in time.

If you don't see this when reviewing the top angle (0:23 seconds) we will have to agree to disagree on the outcome.

Then we will disagree. No skin off my nose.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Rich

Then we will disagree. No skin off my nose.

If there is skin off your nose, I can give you some of mine as I happen to agree with you...and will add that I think your comment about expecting too much from the defender is spot on, and is one of the big problems I see with officiating in my area (it's probably not a problem in that one certain area of Illinois, though).

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Tio

This is a block. The defender ... DOES NOT beat the offense to the spot.

With the contact squarely in the chest (I understand that's not the rule), it is hard for me to see it that way.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Welpe

With the contact squarely in the chest (I understand that's not the rule), it is hard for me to see it that way.

Taking contact in the chest is not relevant if the defender never got 2 feet down while facing the opponent....and that is the point I'm making. I'm not sure he did.

And, while I've been arguing the point of view supporting a block, I'd probably have a charge in the game....close enough to legal for me that I'd not be able to tell otherwise in real time.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Rich

This is just my opinion, but I think those who would call this a block expect too much from defenders.

Precisely.

[Tio]

Originally Posted by Rich

This is just my opinion, but I think those who would call this a block expect too much from defenders.

Only that they beat the offense to the spot to get a charge.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Tio

Only that they beat the offense to the spot to get a charge.

Is that required by rule?

[Tio]

Basketball at its fundamental roots is all about the offense beating the defense to more advantageous position to score. It is the spirit for which every rule was written.

Look, it is a close play. The real learning on this is the court positioning and communication between the C & L.

This thread can be closed as far as I'm concerned.