Speaking to a coach

[Terrapins Fan]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Here's are NFHS 9-7-1 and 9-7-3



Since there isn't a height allowance in there...

If the kid is still in there after 5-6 seconds it's tough to argue he's not gaining an advantage, regardless of height. Put it this way: his height didn't prevent him from getting there in the first place, did it?

I can argue advantage/disadvantage. His is 5'3" tall, he is not boxing anyone out, he is not going to get a rebound from 3 players who are 6' tall or taller. He was trying to get out and was trapped.

That's why I didn't see any advantage to making that call. JMO.

I work with guys who tell me " we are NOT calling 3 seconds tonight, I don't care if they are in there or 7 seconds"

They are the R, that's what we do.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I can argue advantage/disadvantage. His is 5'3" tall, he is not boxing anyone out, he is not going to get a rebound from 3 players who are 6' tall or taller. He was trying to get out and was trapped.

That's why I didn't see any advantage to making that call. JMO.

I work with guys who tell me " we are NOT calling 3 seconds tonight, I don't care if they are in there or 7 seconds"

They are the R, that's what we do.

You misunderstand the role of the R. They don't get to decide what you do and don't call.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I can argue advantage/disadvantage. His is 5'3" tall, he is not boxing anyone out, he is not going to get a rebound from 3 players who are 6' tall or taller. He was trying to get out and was trapped.

That's why I didn't see any advantage to making that call. JMO.

I work with guys who tell me " we are NOT calling 3 seconds tonight, I don't care if they are in there or 7 seconds"

They are the R, that's what we do.

You're thinking too much. If the player is trapped in there like you say, call the violation and ship it.

And yeah, way too much talking with the coach. Since when do we discuss advantage / disadvantage on violations with coaches?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I can argue advantage/disadvantage. His is 5'3" tall, he is not boxing anyone out, he is not going to get a rebound from 3 players who are 6' tall or taller. He was trying to get out and was trapped.

That's why I didn't see any advantage to making that call. JMO.

I work with guys who tell me " we are NOT calling 3 seconds tonight, I don't care if they are in there or 7 seconds"

They are the R, that's what we do.

Interesting. I wouldn't be letting anyone (let alone an "R") tell me not to call 3s after 7s.

Would I have a whistle at exactly 3.0s for a 5'3" guy stuck in the lane? Probably not. Would I not call because he's just 5'3"? Nope.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I work with guys who tell me " we are NOT calling 3 seconds tonight, I don't care if they are in there or 7 seconds"

They are the R, that's what we do.

So getting back to your question of how to speak to a coach: based on this, what are you going to say to a coach who complains about players of similar height being in the lane for seven seconds with no call?

Sometimes we can create our own "situations" by straying a little too far from the rule book.

[Forksref]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

That's why I didn't see any advantage to making that call. JMO.

The advantage is that team B has to have someone to guard him in there regardless. 5-6 seconds is WAY too much time. If 5-6 seconds is OK, then what is NOT OK, 7 or 8 or 9? Make the call and move along. I doubt the team A coach would have much of an argument for an official enforcing a clear rule.

When I was a coach, I always told my players, "Don't pass OUT of the lane." For obvious reasons.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I work with guys who tell me " we are NOT calling 3 seconds tonight, I don't care if they are in there or 7 seconds"

Nobody makes a blanket statement like that to me about what not to call, especially if that statement has no rule support.

[johnny d]

As soon as the coach comes at you with the "the rule is 3 seconds" statement, Ive got ok coach you have voiced your displeasure, we are moving on. then, since this sounds like a lower level game and i dont have the patience to put up with nonsense from a lower level coach about something as trivial as a 3 second call, i am calling a 3 second violation on him as soon as he has anyone in the lane for exactly 3 seconds. he will get the picture real fast about wanting the rules called exactly as written without any discretion on the part of the officials.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by johnny d

As soon as the coach comes at you with the "the rule is 3 seconds" statement, Ive got ok coach you have voiced your displeasure, we are moving on. then, since this sounds like a lower level game and i dont have the patience to put up with nonsense from a lower level coach about something as trivial as a 3 second call, i am calling a 3 second violation on him as soon as he has anyone in the lane for exactly 3 seconds. he will get the picture real fast about wanting the rules called exactly as written without any discretion on the part of the officials.

To me, that's just a terrible choice to make on the court.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Rich

To me, that's just a terrible choice to make on the court.

Agreed. That's the sort of vindictive officiating that will relegated a guy to middle school blowouts and YMCA games.

[KJUmp]

I remember during my first or second year officiating, one of the veteran members here on the forum posted a list of various responses to use when it might be necessary/appropriate/good management to address a comment(s) from a coach.

It was probably posted back in the 09-10 season and I found it extremely helpful in developing that portion of my game management.

If anyone can search that post, it may be a good time to re-post it given the title of this thread.

[BillyMac]

General Techniques:

Statements by coaches don’t normally need a response. Answer questions, not statements.
Let the coach ask their question first, before speaking. Be a responder, not an initiator.
Most coaches will have questions when they believe the officials have missed an obvious call.
Having the officials in closer proximity often calms down the coach.
Be in control and speak in calm, easy tones. Be aware of your body language; maintain positive and confident
body language.
Make eye contact with the coach when the situation allows.
Do not try to answer a question from an out of control coach; deal with the behavior first.
If you’ve missed a call or made a mistake; admit it. This technique can only be used sparingly, perhaps
once a game.
Don’t bluff your way through a call.
Do not ignore a coach.

Specific Communication Examples:

Coach sees the play very differently than the official:
“Coach, if that’s the way it happened/what you saw, then I must have missed it. I’ll take a closer look next
time.”
“Coach, I understand what you’re saying, however, on that play I didn’t see it that way. I’ll keep an eye for it
on both ends.”
“Coach, we’ll watch for that on both ends.”
“Coach, I had a good look at that play and here’s what I saw (short explanation).”
“Coach, I was in a good position to make that call.”
“Coach, I understand what you’re saying, but my angle was different than yours.”
“Coach, I had a great look at that play, but I understand your question and I’ll have the crew keep an eye on it.”
“Coach, I had that play all the way and made the call.”

Coach believes you’re missing persistent illegal acts by the other team:
“OK coach, we’ll watch for that.”
“Coach, we are watching for that on both ends of the court.”
“Coach, I hear you, and I’ll work hard to get a better view.”

Coach is questioning a partner’s call:
“Coach, that’s a good call, as a crew we have to make that call.”
“We’re calling it on both ends.”
“Coach, he/she was right there and had a great angle.”
“Coach, we’re not going there, I can’t let you criticize my partner.”
“Coach, he/she had a great look, but if you have a specific question, you’ll have to ask him/her, he/she’ll be
over here in just a minute.”
“Tell me, I’ll ask him.”

Coach is very animated and gesturing:
“Coach, I’m going to talk with you and answer your questions, but you must put your arms down/stop the
gesturing.”
“Coach, please put your arms down. Now, what’s your question?”

Coach is raising their voice asking the question:
“Coach, I can hear you. I’m standing right here, you don’t need to raise your voice.”
"Coach, I need you to stop raising your voice and just ask your question calmly.”
“Coach, stop yellng across the court, I’m right here.”

Coach is commenting on something every time down the floor:
“Coach, I need you to pick your spots, we can’t have a comment on every single call that is being made.”
"Coach, I can't have you officiating this game."
"Coach, I understand you're not going to agree with all of our calls, but I can't have you question every
single one."
"Coach, if you have a question, I'll answer if I have a chance, but we aren't going to have these constant
comments."
“Coach, I will listen to you, but you can’t officiate every play.”

Coach has a good point and might be right.
“You’ve got a good point and might be right about that play.”
“You might be right, that’s one we’ll talk about at halftime/intermission/the next time out.”
“You might be right; I may not have had the best angle on that play.”
“Coach, I missed it.”

Coach is venting, make editorial comments:
“I hear what you’re saying”
“I hear what you’re saying, but we’re moving on.”

Coach just won’t let it go:
“Coach, I hear you, but we’re moving on.”
“Coach, enough.”
“I’ve heard enough and that’s your warning.”

Original Source: Topeka (Kansas) Officials Association

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I work with guys who tell me " we are NOT calling 3 seconds tonight, I don't care if they are in there or 7 seconds"

They are the R, that's what we do.

If someone said that to me, I'd ask him what other rules are we supposed to ignore - traveling, illegal dribble, inbound violations, or better yet - flagrant fouls?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I can argue advantage/disadvantage. His is 5'3" tall, he is not boxing anyone out, he is not going to get a rebound from 3 players who are 6' tall or taller. He was trying to get out and was trapped.

That's why I didn't see any advantage to making that call.

You can argue it all you like... but it doesn't make you right. You don't KNOW anything you mention above. You may suspect it, and you may be right most of the time... but he was there - in a spot that cannot therefore be occupied by the defense. You don't KNOW he wasn't going to get the rebound - and I'm sure you've seen shorter players rebound with a taller opponent nearby.

Further... rebounding is not the only thing that happens down low, and not the only thing that the offense can't camp in there to do. The mere fact that the player is where he's not allowed to be is the violation - since he's where he is (as is the player guarding him), defenders cannot proceed through him to get to where they want to go.

So the idea that he has NO advantage by remaining where he's not allowed to be is untrue.

PS - I would stay away from arguing advantage/disadvantage with a coach most of the time (at least in basketball... I can see discussing adv/disad with a coach in football, however). They do not referee - they do not understand that as well as we do. And they see the rule as written, in black and white.