theoretically speaking....

MI Official · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Sep 24, 2004, 10:05am

A has the ball at midfield, score is 7-6 with A trailing, final play of the game. A1 drops for a 'Hail Mary' and scrambles. He then runs down the field, weher, at about the 10 he throws a pass into the EZ for a TD. Obviously we have an illegal forward pass. Here is the question. this is a spot penalty, correct? How do we explain to team B that he can decline and lose the game, or accept and give A a shot a a FG. or is there another option(mockery of the game fouls, etc..)

jumpmaster · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Sep 24, 2004, 10:23am

them's the lumps. You are correct, if B declines TD. If B accepts, A has a shot at a FG.

This is a hole in the Fed rules. I have heard the NFL and NCAA have provisions for this scenario.

SouthGARef · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Sep 24, 2004, 10:24am

Chalk it up to stupid rules IMO. I believe that a penalty against a team losing the game on the last play of regulation should not extend the game. Just my belief.

This is done quite frequently by the "smart" teams in flag football. You might think High School coaches are dumb, but the teams that go to nationals for flag football know the rulebooks better than some of us officials do. They know that they gain field position by running the "two pass" play and get a play.

jack015 · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Sep 24, 2004, 10:24am

Quote:

[/B]How do we explain to team B that he can decline and lose the game, or accept and give A a shot a a FG. or is there another option(mockery of the game fouls, etc..) [/B]

Explain it the same way you would explain it to him if the A QB ran into the EZ and during the run A2 held at the 10 yard line.

[Edited by jack015 on Sep 24th, 2004 at 11:27 AM]

Mark Dexter · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Sep 24, 2004, 01:36pm

Chalk it up to a smart quarterback - A1 is going to get another shot at it, 1st and 10 from the 15 yard line - untimed down.

SoGARef · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Sep 24, 2004, 04:30pm

Guys, am I missing something here?

We have an illegal forward pass. That is a 5-yard penalty from the spot of the foul and a loss of down. Because the game ended during this play, A would loose the right to play an untimed down. Hence, if B declines the penalty they lose or if they accept the penalty we go home because a lost the right to play the down.

Do you agree or am I off deep in the cornfield?

SouthGARef · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Sep 24, 2004, 05:14pm

You're missing something here. Imagine the play without the clock running out. He runs past the line of scrimmage, throws a pass for a TD. We mark off 5 yards and (if they don't gain a first down after enforcement) don't replay the down.

Since we can't end a period on a live ball foul (other than non-player), we have to have an untimed down. So B to keep the points off the board has to accept the penalty, but A gets an untimed down.

Mark Dexter · #8 (**permalink**) Sat Sep 25, 2004, 07:56am

Quote:

Originally posted by SoGARef
Guys, am I missing something here?

We have an illegal forward pass. That is a 5-yard penalty from the spot of the foul and a loss of down. Because the game ended during this play, A would loose the right to play an untimed down. Hence, if B declines the penalty they lose or if they accept the penalty we go home because a lost the right to play the down.

Do you agree or am I off deep in the cornfield?

Loss of the right to replay the down refers to what down number you'll have. It does not impact the status of an untimed down.

The Roamin' Umpire · #9 (**permalink**) Sat Sep 25, 2004, 10:15am

Quote:

Originally posted by BushRef
OK, I'm just a rookie, so bear with me, and it's 5 AM and I'm not gettin my books out just yet, but I thought that the game couldn't end on a play where there is a DEFENSIVE penalty, but COULD end on a play with a penalty on the offense. Am I wrong?

I'm afraid so. NF rules state that we get an untimed down at the end of any period if there is:

a live-ball foul
during the last timed down
for which the penalty is accepted.

Under the NF ruleset, which team committed the foul is irrelevant.

Rich · #10 (**permalink**) Sat Sep 25, 2004, 12:47pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BushRef
OK, I'm just a rookie, so bear with me, and it's 5 AM and I'm not gettin my books out just yet, but I thought that the game couldn't end on a play where there is a DEFENSIVE penalty, but COULD end on a play with a penalty on the offense. Am I wrong?

You're right on Sunday afternoon, which is what most fans and coaches think are "the" rules.