Speaking to a coach

[JetMetFan]

Here's are NFHS 9-7-1 and 9-7-3

A player shall not remain for three seconds in that part of his/her free-throw lane between the end line and the farther edge of the free-throw line while the ball is in control of his/her team in his/her frontcourt.

Allowance shall be made for a player who, having been in the restricted area for less than three seconds, dribbles in or moves immediately to try for goal.

Since there isn't a height allowance in there...

If the kid is still in there after 5-6 seconds it's tough to argue he's not gaining an advantage, regardless of height. Put it this way: his height didn't prevent him from getting there in the first place, did it?

As for speaking to the coach, you should know as a former coach yourself the less you can say, the better. If you'd stopped with "Coach, I didn't see him having an advantage" the yelling probably stops a little sooner. He may not have liked it but he might've moved on.

[Terrapins Fan]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Here's are NFHS 9-7-1 and 9-7-3



Since there isn't a height allowance in there...

If the kid is still in there after 5-6 seconds it's tough to argue he's not gaining an advantage, regardless of height. Put it this way: his height didn't prevent him from getting there in the first place, did it?

I can argue advantage/disadvantage. His is 5'3" tall, he is not boxing anyone out, he is not going to get a rebound from 3 players who are 6' tall or taller. He was trying to get out and was trapped.

That's why I didn't see any advantage to making that call. JMO.

I work with guys who tell me " we are NOT calling 3 seconds tonight, I don't care if they are in there or 7 seconds"

They are the R, that's what we do.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I can argue advantage/disadvantage. His is 5'3" tall, he is not boxing anyone out, he is not going to get a rebound from 3 players who are 6' tall or taller. He was trying to get out and was trapped.

That's why I didn't see any advantage to making that call. JMO.

I work with guys who tell me " we are NOT calling 3 seconds tonight, I don't care if they are in there or 7 seconds"

They are the R, that's what we do.

You misunderstand the role of the R. They don't get to decide what you do and don't call.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I can argue advantage/disadvantage. His is 5'3" tall, he is not boxing anyone out, he is not going to get a rebound from 3 players who are 6' tall or taller. He was trying to get out and was trapped.

That's why I didn't see any advantage to making that call. JMO.

I work with guys who tell me " we are NOT calling 3 seconds tonight, I don't care if they are in there or 7 seconds"

They are the R, that's what we do.

You're thinking too much. If the player is trapped in there like you say, call the violation and ship it.

And yeah, way too much talking with the coach. Since when do we discuss advantage / disadvantage on violations with coaches?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I can argue advantage/disadvantage. His is 5'3" tall, he is not boxing anyone out, he is not going to get a rebound from 3 players who are 6' tall or taller. He was trying to get out and was trapped.

That's why I didn't see any advantage to making that call. JMO.

I work with guys who tell me " we are NOT calling 3 seconds tonight, I don't care if they are in there or 7 seconds"

They are the R, that's what we do.

Interesting. I wouldn't be letting anyone (let alone an "R") tell me not to call 3s after 7s.

Would I have a whistle at exactly 3.0s for a 5'3" guy stuck in the lane? Probably not. Would I not call because he's just 5'3"? Nope.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I work with guys who tell me " we are NOT calling 3 seconds tonight, I don't care if they are in there or 7 seconds"

They are the R, that's what we do.

So getting back to your question of how to speak to a coach: based on this, what are you going to say to a coach who complains about players of similar height being in the lane for seven seconds with no call?

Sometimes we can create our own "situations" by straying a little too far from the rule book.

[Forksref]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

That's why I didn't see any advantage to making that call. JMO.

The advantage is that team B has to have someone to guard him in there regardless. 5-6 seconds is WAY too much time. If 5-6 seconds is OK, then what is NOT OK, 7 or 8 or 9? Make the call and move along. I doubt the team A coach would have much of an argument for an official enforcing a clear rule.

When I was a coach, I always told my players, "Don't pass OUT of the lane." For obvious reasons.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I work with guys who tell me " we are NOT calling 3 seconds tonight, I don't care if they are in there or 7 seconds"

Nobody makes a blanket statement like that to me about what not to call, especially if that statement has no rule support.

[johnny d]

As soon as the coach comes at you with the "the rule is 3 seconds" statement, Ive got ok coach you have voiced your displeasure, we are moving on. then, since this sounds like a lower level game and i dont have the patience to put up with nonsense from a lower level coach about something as trivial as a 3 second call, i am calling a 3 second violation on him as soon as he has anyone in the lane for exactly 3 seconds. he will get the picture real fast about wanting the rules called exactly as written without any discretion on the part of the officials.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by johnny d

As soon as the coach comes at you with the "the rule is 3 seconds" statement, Ive got ok coach you have voiced your displeasure, we are moving on. then, since this sounds like a lower level game and i dont have the patience to put up with nonsense from a lower level coach about something as trivial as a 3 second call, i am calling a 3 second violation on him as soon as he has anyone in the lane for exactly 3 seconds. he will get the picture real fast about wanting the rules called exactly as written without any discretion on the part of the officials.

To me, that's just a terrible choice to make on the court.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Rich

To me, that's just a terrible choice to make on the court.

Agreed. That's the sort of vindictive officiating that will relegated a guy to middle school blowouts and YMCA games.

[KJUmp]

I remember during my first or second year officiating, one of the veteran members here on the forum posted a list of various responses to use when it might be necessary/appropriate/good management to address a comment(s) from a coach.

It was probably posted back in the 09-10 season and I found it extremely helpful in developing that portion of my game management.

If anyone can search that post, it may be a good time to re-post it given the title of this thread.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I work with guys who tell me " we are NOT calling 3 seconds tonight, I don't care if they are in there or 7 seconds"

They are the R, that's what we do.

If someone said that to me, I'd ask him what other rules are we supposed to ignore - traveling, illegal dribble, inbound violations, or better yet - flagrant fouls?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I can argue advantage/disadvantage. His is 5'3" tall, he is not boxing anyone out, he is not going to get a rebound from 3 players who are 6' tall or taller. He was trying to get out and was trapped.

That's why I didn't see any advantage to making that call.

You can argue it all you like... but it doesn't make you right. You don't KNOW anything you mention above. You may suspect it, and you may be right most of the time... but he was there - in a spot that cannot therefore be occupied by the defense. You don't KNOW he wasn't going to get the rebound - and I'm sure you've seen shorter players rebound with a taller opponent nearby.

Further... rebounding is not the only thing that happens down low, and not the only thing that the offense can't camp in there to do. The mere fact that the player is where he's not allowed to be is the violation - since he's where he is (as is the player guarding him), defenders cannot proceed through him to get to where they want to go.

So the idea that he has NO advantage by remaining where he's not allowed to be is untrue.

PS - I would stay away from arguing advantage/disadvantage with a coach most of the time (at least in basketball... I can see discussing adv/disad with a coach in football, however). They do not referee - they do not understand that as well as we do. And they see the rule as written, in black and white.

[Raymond]

Had a BV game where kid about that same height got callled fof 3 seconds when he didn't leave paint after passing ball. Coach in my ear joked his player too short to get that call.

Bottomline, it was an obvious violation.