Lost time out...

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Seems to me the opposite. You seem to have an interest in overmanaging the game and overcommunicating with the table and coaches. The rulebook doesn't tell you to update the coach on his timeouts except when he runs out. Now you've gone and communicated (improperly) with the coach something that turns out to be in error. And you have no "fair"way out of your conundrum.

I don't believe Mac is just out there to blow his whistle. From previous posts, he seems to know what he's talking about as well as anyone else here. You are railing on him for not doing something that the rulebook doesn't tell him to do. I think you're wrong.

Please show me where I've posted I update the coach on how many timeouts he has, other than when required.

I'll save you the trouble, I didn't post any such thing nor have I advocated such. I said, I keep up with the timeouts beginning in the fourth quarter. By doing so, hopefully I can avoid a situation like this.

In my opinion, ignoring what two 16 y/o's are doing at the scorer's table because "it keeps me out of trouble" is not the best way to manage a game. You're certainly welcome to disagree with my opinion. And if I offended Billy Mac, I apologize. Being tactful has never been my strong suit.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

In my opinion, ignoring what two 16 y/o's are doing at the scorer's table because "it keeps me out of trouble" is not the best way to manage a game. .

When was the last time you saw "two 16 y/o's" running books at a college game? (I believe that was the game in the OP)

In fact, I can't remember the last time anyone but an adult has done the Varsity books around these parts.

Having said that...an inexperienced adult, running the books, can really get you in trouble. (If you are not actively "managing" them...I'm with you there BBR)

We had one of those inexperienced adults the other night....

It was her FIRST time EVER keeping score. And this was for a Varsity game!
The clock operator was also inexperienced. Actually, this was a nightmare table crew.

Fouls were recorded wrong on the board...Score was recorded wrong on the board...TO's were not kept up to date on board...Disqualified player showed 4 fouls on board (player talked his coach into putting him back in the game because the board showed he only had 4 fouls)

...that is a whole different story...

MORAL OF THIS STORY:

Quiz the table crew, when you are signing the books, just to get a feel for how knowledgeable they are.

i.e.

* When do you start the shot clock after the made basket?
(Some start it when it is at the throw-in teams disposal...some start after ball goes through hoop...some start when ball touches player on court)

* When do you start the play clock? (on our CHOP)

* When do you activate the first horn after TO's or a disqualification?
(Most get this, 15 seconds before the end of TO,...but, many do not know to activate the horn 5 seconds into a disqualification) [I usually count to 5 after I tell the clock operator to start the clock for a disqualification...then instruct to activate 1st horn, if they look confused] I stress to them that for TO's and disq. activate horn with 15 seconds left...no matter what length TO or disq. is...here is where you have to let them know 20 seconds for disq. replacement.

* I even ask the book to let us know when we are in the bonus. (I stress to them we don't want a correctable error situation)

* I ask them to give us a nice visible 5 for a disqualification...and a horn.

* I will ask the table crew when it is too late for a substitute to check in during a TO.(after the 1st horn...a player can check in after 1st horn...just won't get in right away)

I like this time with the table crew...I become familiar with the table crew and their knowledge...and best of all...

it gives me something to do during the "worst 15 minutes of basketball"

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

When was the last time you saw "two 16 y/o's" running books at a college game? (I believe that was the game in the OP)

Wasn't referring to the OP. I was referring to Billy Mac's post, who I am under the impression only works HS. If I'm wrong about that, BM is welcome to correct me.

Either way, it wasn't meant to be taken that every single game has 16 y/o scorers. But for the record, many of them do here and I do everything I can to keep it from going down the crapper because of them.

[just another ref]

Tonight, varsity DH, there was a kid (not sure how old, my definition of "kid" is a lot broader than it used to be) keeping the official book. We had a timeout with about 2 or 3 minutes left in the girls game. I walked to the table and never said a word. He quickly volunteered. (pointing) "They have 2 left.....and they have 1." I said to just be sure and let us know if somebody has NONE. He assured me that he would.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Just be sure and let us know if somebody has none.

Hey. That's my line.

Note: None and excess.

[SCalScoreKeeper]

Here's what I like to do with timeouts-

*Say a coach has used both 30's-I'll tell the reporting official "Last 30 for ______"

*On the next timeout after using the last 30 I wll make the full signal to signify that is all they have left

*Same ideas applies if they use all fulls first.

*Otherwise I tell them when they ask.

[Rich]

Call me crazy, but I want to know what a team has left and which kinds they have left. If a team has only 60-second timeouts left, I don't want to have to waste time asking the coach what he wants.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Note: None and excess.

If I know when they have none, I can figure out on my own if one is excess.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

If I know when they have none, I can figure out on my own if one is excess.

Two officials. Two teams. Figure out the permutations. I want the scorekeeper to tell me when a team has used an excess (illegal) timeout, just in case I, or my partner, forgets that it's an excess (illegal) timeout that must be penalized. This is not a correctable error.

Also, more importantly, it's a rule: 2-11-9: Signal the nearer official each time a team is granted a time-out in excess of the allotted number.

Now, where are my house keys?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

And if I offended BillyMac, I apologize.

No offense taken. No need to apologize. Hey. I've gone one on one with Jurassic Referee on this Forum, and lived to tell about it. After that, nothing on the Forum offends me. Dr. Jurassic Referee immunized me against "offense". Plus, I should have never posted that Sargent Schultz video, which I'm sure, many Forum members found to be offensive. But I won't apologize. If God didn't want me to post videos on the Forum, he would have never invented YouTube.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

If God didn't want me to post videos on the Forum, he would have never invented YouTube.

God thinks further ahead than that. If he didn't want you to post videos on the Forum, he would have never invented Al Gore.