Lost time out...

[icallfouls]

College game last night.

Visiting team is making a comeback from 22 down and have cut the lead to 5 with 4 minutes to go and the teams are trading baskets.

With 1:13 to go Home team gets trapped on the sideline and has to call their last TO. My partners are taking care of the TO administration and having a discussion on the opposite side of the floor. The table crew has told them that the home team still has 1 time out left.

I am observing the home team and the coach tells his team they are out of TO's - as both teams are tracking them. One of my partners is telling the home team that they still have 1 TO left. I go over and tell them that the coach thinks he has no TO's left. The book does a quick recheck, 1 TO left for the home team. Can you smell the home cooking?

Coach has asked R, so if I call TO, you are not going to T me? "no, the book says you have one left"

R explains this to visiting team as well and we get ready to inbound the ball. I bounce the ball to the inbounder, who has trouble getting ball in, but does so on 4 count. Visitors trap the ball near midcourt, clock does not start for 4 or 5 seconds, the home team is able to split the trap and make a pass, AND the shot clock had been reset when the ball was caught by the home team. I remember looking at the clock 1:13 left and :13 left. The T and the C kill the play.

Now that we have fixed everything, the table sounds the horn. "I found the last TO, home team is out of TO's"

Both coaches are difficult in the best of situations. If home team had called a TO, the visiting coach likely goes crazy saying that the extra time out should be TF. If we TF the excessive TO, the home coach goes bananas which might get another TF.

Maybe we should start carrying pad and pen like football/soccer to track TO's ourselves?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

Maybe we should start carrying pad and pen like football/soccer to track TO's ourselves?

I'm never gonna do that........ and if the table says they have one left, they subsequently call one, then the table says they didn't have one left, I'm not gonna call a T. jmo

[bob jenkins]

If the coach thinks s/he has zero TOs left, I'm not getting involved even if I think (or the book thinks) they have 1 left).

And, I do try to track them myself.

[BillyMac]

I only want the table to tell me when the team has been granted all of their timeouts, or have been granted an excess (illegal) timeout. I will only tell the coach when his team has been granted all of their timeouts, or when his team has been granted an excess (illegal) timeout. This keeps me out of trouble.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I only want the table to tell me when the team has been granted all of their timeouts, or have been granted an excess (illegal) timeout. I will only tell the coach when his team has been granted all of their timeouts, or when his team has been granted an excess (illegal) timeout. This keeps me out of trouble.

Basically, if the table makes a mistake and tells the coach he has one timeout left, he calls it, then they say he had none, you're in the clear because you weren't involved? So you think the appropriate thing to do in that sitch is assess the T since there's no blood on your hands? Is that what you're saying?

[SCalScoreKeeper]

wow that is one bad official scorer! was the AD of the host institution notified that he should probably start looking for a replacement official scorer? icall-your crew handled this perfectly IMHO

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Basically, if the table makes a mistake and tells the coach he has one timeout left, he calls it, then they say he had none, you're in the clear because you weren't involved? So you think the appropriate thing to do in that sitch is assess the T since there's no blood on your hands? Is that what you're saying?

God invented assistant coaches to keep their mouths shut, to keep their butts on the bench, and to keep track of granted timeouts. Officials are not expected to know, and communicate, any more timeout information then is required by the rules. If the table communicates the wrong information to the coach, and then the coach requests, and is granted, an excess (illegal) time out, then I don't believe that we can give his team a pass, and that we must charge the team with a technical foul. Even if it's the visiting coach, he still has a scorekeeper at the bench to, hopefully, prevent this situation.

If the table forgot to inform me that the team had been granted their last timeout, with me, obviously, not communicating this to the coach, and then he requested, and was granted, another timeout, at which time the scorekeeper informed me that the coach requested, and was granted, an excess (illegal) timeout, then I would still charge a technical foul to the team. Two wrongs don't make a right.

I don't believe that invoking 2-3, or advantage/disadvantage is allowed, by rule here, although if an official chose to go this route, I would not point out the undercarriage of a bus to him.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I only want the table to tell me when the team has been granted all of their timeouts, or have been granted an excess (illegal) timeout. I will only tell the coach when his team has been granted all of their timeouts, or when his team has been granted an excess (illegal) timeout. This keeps me out of trouble.

What you said: +10,000

video: +10,000


MTD, Sr.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

The table crew has told them that the home team still has 1 time out left.

My handy dandy CCA manual (NCAAW) says "Notify the head coach of the team that has called its final timeout." So...we say nothing.

There's really nothing positive that can come from telling a coach they have a timeout when they don't think they do and the table isn't sure. If they - the coach - think they're out, no one tries to call one. If we tell them they have one then they call it and during the TO the table says, "ummm, they actually didn't have one" then we have to charge that team with an administrative T. The penalty is even worse in my code since the other team gets the ball.

If the situation is reversed - table says no TO, we give that information to the coach and the coach believes he/she has one - then it'll be figured out right then and there.

As was said earlier, this is what assistant coaches are for. Regarding the table: in a college game there are two scorers and a play-by-play person sitting there. The official NCAA scorebook also includes space to write down who called a timeout and when. I would think one of those folks should've been able to figure out what was wrong fairly quickly.

[Forksref]

We had a similar situation on Friday night. Visiting team thinks they are out of timeouts. It's a close game near the end and he wants to make sure what he has. I check the home book: 2 TO's left. The visiting book agrees that they have 2 TO's left. We go with the home book. The home coach has no problem with it.

[Tio]

I would say your crew is getting in trouble by relaying the number of timeouts left to a team. Don't do this, ever! If someone asks you how many timeouts they have, tell them to ask the book.

Had home called a timeout you would have been in a predicament.

Anytime there is a dispute in a college game in regard to timeouts... I would recommend going to the internet "play-by-play." (Not the radio) Usually there is someone at the table with a laptop charting each play in text. This includes the time of timeouts used and can be consulted if you need to get the play right.

Originally Posted by icallfouls

College game last night.

Visiting team is making a comeback from 22 down and have cut the lead to 5 with 4 minutes to go and the teams are trading baskets.

With 1:13 to go Home team gets trapped on the sideline and has to call their last TO. My partners are taking care of the TO administration and having a discussion on the opposite side of the floor. The table crew has told them that the home team still has 1 time out left.

I am observing the home team and the coach tells his team they are out of TO's - as both teams are tracking them. One of my partners is telling the home team that they still have 1 TO left. I go over and tell them that the coach thinks he has no TO's left. The book does a quick recheck, 1 TO left for the home team. Can you smell the home cooking?

Coach has asked R, so if I call TO, you are not going to T me? "no, the book says you have one left"

R explains this to visiting team as well and we get ready to inbound the ball. I bounce the ball to the inbounder, who has trouble getting ball in, but does so on 4 count. Visitors trap the ball near midcourt, clock does not start for 4 or 5 seconds, the home team is able to split the trap and make a pass, AND the shot clock had been reset when the ball was caught by the home team. I remember looking at the clock 1:13 left and :13 left. The T and the C kill the play.

Now that we have fixed everything, the table sounds the horn. "I found the last TO, home team is out of TO's"

Both coaches are difficult in the best of situations. If home team had called a TO, the visiting coach likely goes crazy saying that the extra time out should be TF. If we TF the excessive TO, the home coach goes bananas which might get another TF.

Maybe we should start carrying pad and pen like football/soccer to track TO's ourselves?

[icallfouls]

We discussed this as a crew and with the "play-by-play" person. He said that it would take 10 minutes or more to get back to the beginning of the play-by-play and track down the information. We did not pursue this as an option.

Originally Posted by Tio

I would say your crew is getting in trouble by relaying the number of timeouts left to a team. Don't do this, ever! If someone asks you how many timeouts they have, tell them to ask the book.

Had home called a timeout you would have been in a predicament.

Anytime there is a dispute in a college game in regard to timeouts... I would recommend going to the internet "play-by-play." (Not the radio) Usually there is someone at the table with a laptop charting each play in text. This includes the time of timeouts used and can be consulted if you need to get the play right.