Lost time out...

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Manage the game, manage the scorer's table and manage the players and coaches and you prevent such situations from happening.

Based on the OP my question would be what was there to manage? If the crew follows procedure and doesn't say anything to the head coach - since the crew was told the home team had one timeout remaining - there shouldn't be anything else to do at that point.

If that coach doesn't call a TO for the rest of the game, no harm done. If the table tells him he has a TO, he calls one then the scorers figure out he doesn't have one, managing the game means dealing with an excessive timeout.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Based on the OP my question would be what was there to manage? If the crew follows procedure and doesn't say anything to the head coach - since the crew was told the home team had one timeout remaining - there shouldn't be anything else to do at that point.

If the coach doesn't have any timeouts, then we would have informed him of that. If the table tells the coach he has one timeout remaining and then says he doesn't have any when he calls it, then we haven't managed the game. Ignoring the situation isn't managing it.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

If the coach doesn't have any timeouts, then we would have informed him of that. If the table tells the coach he has one timeout remaining and then says he doesn't have any when he calls it, then we haven't managed the game. Ignoring the situation isn't managing it.

Are you saying you keep up with the number of timeouts as they are used?
(I don't)

Otherwise, the exchange between the coach and the table could happen without our knowledge. Then, the table could discover the mistake? and not tell anyone until the next timeout is called. What could we have done to prevent this?

Here's what I would do at this point:

Table: He doesn't have any timeouts.

Coach: They just told me I did have a timeout.

Me: Table, is this true?

Table: yes.......oops

Me: No T and no timeout. Play ball.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Are you saying you keep up with the number of timeouts as they are used?

From the beginning of the 4th quarter going forward, yes.

Even so, if the don't tell me that he's used his last one, he requests one, they tell me he doesn't have anymore but they've told him he does, then we're not going to have a T and we're not going to have a timeout. Let's play.

But the idea that you stand out in the middle of the floor and just ignore the possibility that something might be wrong because "This keeps me out of trouble," is a chicken$hit way of handling it IMO.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

From the beginning of the 4th quarter going forward, yes.

Even so, if the don't tell me that he's used his last one, he requests one, ]they tell me he doesn't have anymore but they've told him he does, then we're not going to have a T and we're not going to have a timeout. Let's play.

+1

But the idea that you stand out in the middle of the floor and just ignore the possibility that something might be wrong because "This keeps me out of trouble," is a chicken$hit way of handling it IMO.

Perhaps there are more delicate ways to put it, but it's hard to argue with this.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

If a coach, for whatever reason, is misinformed regarding the number, if any, of his timeouts remaining, and if he requests, and is granted, a sixth timeout in regulation, I won't charge the technical foul right away. I will get together with both scorekeepers, as well as my partner, to try to get the most definitive information possible, and maybe determine the cause of the mistaken communication.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

But the idea that you stand out in the middle of the floor and just ignore the possibility that something might be wrong because "This keeps me out of trouble," is a chicken$hit way of handling it IMO.

It's pretty tough to stand in the middle of the floor and do what I stated in my quote above.

[SCalScoreKeeper]

you know how volleyball officials have to wear those shirts that say "certified volleyball official" on them? well maybe the fed/ncaa should come up with a standard scorekeepers test-those of us who have more than 5 years of service at our schools should be exempted and get the patch automatically.it would say in my state "certified CIF-SS scorekeeper."

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper

you know how volleyball officials have to wear those shirts that say "certified volleyball official" on them? well maybe the fed/ncaa should come up with a standard scorekeepers test-those of us who have more than 5 years of service at our schools should be exempted and get the patch added to our striped garment automatically.

At that rate you might be the only scorekeeper in the country!

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

It's pretty tough to stand in the middle of the floor and do what I stated in my quote above.

Perhaps the concern was that "not getting into trouble" was your primary objective, as opposed to interjecting yourself into a discussion between table and coach. (if necessary, if possible, which it may or may not be) Comparing yourself to Sgt. Schulz did nothing to discourage that impression.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Comparing yourself to Sgt. Schulz did nothing to discourage that impression.

Yet another reason for me to stop posting images, and videos. Too late for a 2013 New Year's resolution. Maybe I'll make it my resolution for the Chinese New Year, next month. It's going to be the Year of the Water Snake.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Are you saying you keep up with the number of timeouts as they are used?
(I don't)

...

I try to. Wish I did a better job at it. Sometimes when I checking the book late in the 2nd half I will check to make sure each scorer has the same time-out count.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

If the coach doesn't have any timeouts, then we would have informed him of that. If the table tells the coach he has one timeout remaining and then says he doesn't have any when he calls it, then we haven't managed the game. Ignoring the situation isn't managing it.

JAR beat me to it but the table/coach conversation could have - and probably would have - happened without the crew's knowledge. If he and/or the scorers bring it to our attention of course we'll handle it. But if the table tells the crew one thing and the coach believes another and nothing is said, there's nothing for the crew to do.

As I said earlier, there are more backup systems in an NCAA game to prevent something like this from happening before it gets to the crew. Once it gets to us all those systems have failed and we deal with it.