Lost time out...

[SCalScoreKeeper]

you know how volleyball officials have to wear those shirts that say "certified volleyball official" on them? well maybe the fed/ncaa should come up with a standard scorekeepers test-those of us who have more than 5 years of service at our schools should be exempted and get the patch automatically.it would say in my state "certified CIF-SS scorekeeper."

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper

you know how volleyball officials have to wear those shirts that say "certified volleyball official" on them? well maybe the fed/ncaa should come up with a standard scorekeepers test-those of us who have more than 5 years of service at our schools should be exempted and get the patch added to our striped garment automatically.

At that rate you might be the only scorekeeper in the country!

[SCalScoreKeeper]

I have 7 years of full time varsity experience under my belt.but the idea is for conferences/leagues to get all their scorers together and make sure everyone is on the same page in terms of what we record and how we handle a game.any student scorer should be mandated to pass the test as well as attend the meeting.most of the adults working as scorers in our league have 2 or 3 years experience.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

It's pretty tough to stand in the middle of the floor and do what I stated in my quote above.

Perhaps the concern was that "not getting into trouble" was your primary objective, as opposed to interjecting yourself into a discussion between table and coach. (if necessary, if possible, which it may or may not be) Comparing yourself to Sgt. Schulz did nothing to discourage that impression.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Comparing yourself to Sgt. Schulz did nothing to discourage that impression.

Yet another reason for me to stop posting images, and videos. Too late for a 2013 New Year's resolution. Maybe I'll make it my resolution for the Chinese New Year, next month. It's going to be the Year of the Water Snake.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper

I have 7 years of full time varsity experience under my belt.but the idea is for conferences/leagues to get all their scorers together and make sure everyone is on the same page in terms of what we record and how we handle a game.any student scorer should be mandated to pass the test as well as attend the meeting.

We appreciate your talent and devotion, but it is difficult to impose restrictions on labor which is, for the most part, unpaid. Around here, scorers and timers are for the most part, depending on the level, either volunteers or teachers pressed into after hours service, some of whom are obviously not excited about being there.

On the other hand, the main problem with the good experienced table personnel is that they take too much upon themselves. Many timers never watch for the official to chop the clock, and there is nothing worse than reporting a foul to a scorer who never looks up, but is already writing in the book.

I warn some on occasion: "Don't assume anything. The call may not have been that "obvious" thing that you saw. If there is a mistake, let it be mine, not yours."

[SCalScoreKeeper]

I agree with you about the scorer already recording a foul before it is reported being very annoying.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

IOW, you have no interest in managing the game. You have no interest in communicating with the table or coaches. You have no interest in preventative officiating. You're just out there to blow your whistle.

That's not an acceptable mode of operation here.

Thanks.

Seems to me the opposite. You seem to have an interest in overmanaging the game and overcommunicating with the table and coaches. The rulebook doesn't tell you to update the coach on his timeouts except when he runs out. Now you've gone and communicated (improperly) with the coach something that turns out to be in error. And you have no "fair"way out of your conundrum.

I don't believe Mac is just out there to blow his whistle. From previous posts, he seems to know what he's talking about as well as anyone else here. You are railing on him for not doing something that the rulebook doesn't tell him to do. I think you're wrong.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Around here, scorers and timers are for the most part, depending on the level, either volunteers or teachers pressed into after hours service, some of whom are obviously not excited about being there.

As a retired teacher, I can tell you that many teachers, at least here in my little corner of Connecticut, are usually lining up for a chance at this paid extracurricular duty. Maybe it's not great pay, but it's better than sitting at home watching Honey Boo Boo on the "boob tube".

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

There is nothing worse than reporting a foul to a scorer who never looks up, but is already writing in the book.

Yes there is something worse. It's when the game announcer announces the foul before you are finished reporting.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Seems to me the opposite. You seem to have an interest in overmanaging the game and overcommunicating with the table and coaches. The rulebook doesn't tell you to update the coach on his timeouts except when he runs out. Now you've gone and communicated (improperly) with the coach something that turns out to be in error. And you have no "fair"way out of your conundrum.

I don't believe Mac is just out there to blow his whistle. From previous posts, he seems to know what he's talking about as well as anyone else here. You are railing on him for not doing something that the rulebook doesn't tell him to do. I think you're wrong.

Please show me where I've posted I update the coach on how many timeouts he has, other than when required.

I'll save you the trouble, I didn't post any such thing nor have I advocated such. I said, I keep up with the timeouts beginning in the fourth quarter. By doing so, hopefully I can avoid a situation like this.

In my opinion, ignoring what two 16 y/o's are doing at the scorer's table because "it keeps me out of trouble" is not the best way to manage a game. You're certainly welcome to disagree with my opinion. And if I offended Billy Mac, I apologize. Being tactful has never been my strong suit.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Yet another reason for me to stop posting images, and videos. Too late for a 2013 New Year's resolution. Maybe I'll make it my resolution for the Chinese New Year, next month. It's going to be the Year of the Water Snake.

Lent is coming.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

In my opinion, ignoring what two 16 y/o's are doing at the scorer's table because "it keeps me out of trouble" is not the best way to manage a game. .

When was the last time you saw "two 16 y/o's" running books at a college game? (I believe that was the game in the OP)

In fact, I can't remember the last time anyone but an adult has done the Varsity books around these parts.

Having said that...an inexperienced adult, running the books, can really get you in trouble. (If you are not actively "managing" them...I'm with you there BBR)

We had one of those inexperienced adults the other night....

It was her FIRST time EVER keeping score. And this was for a Varsity game!
The clock operator was also inexperienced. Actually, this was a nightmare table crew.

Fouls were recorded wrong on the board...Score was recorded wrong on the board...TO's were not kept up to date on board...Disqualified player showed 4 fouls on board (player talked his coach into putting him back in the game because the board showed he only had 4 fouls)

...that is a whole different story...

MORAL OF THIS STORY:

Quiz the table crew, when you are signing the books, just to get a feel for how knowledgeable they are.

i.e.

* When do you start the shot clock after the made basket?
(Some start it when it is at the throw-in teams disposal...some start after ball goes through hoop...some start when ball touches player on court)

* When do you start the play clock? (on our CHOP)

* When do you activate the first horn after TO's or a disqualification?
(Most get this, 15 seconds before the end of TO,...but, many do not know to activate the horn 5 seconds into a disqualification) [I usually count to 5 after I tell the clock operator to start the clock for a disqualification...then instruct to activate 1st horn, if they look confused] I stress to them that for TO's and disq. activate horn with 15 seconds left...no matter what length TO or disq. is...here is where you have to let them know 20 seconds for disq. replacement.

* I even ask the book to let us know when we are in the bonus. (I stress to them we don't want a correctable error situation)

* I ask them to give us a nice visible 5 for a disqualification...and a horn.

* I will ask the table crew when it is too late for a substitute to check in during a TO.(after the 1st horn...a player can check in after 1st horn...just won't get in right away)

I like this time with the table crew...I become familiar with the table crew and their knowledge...and best of all...

it gives me something to do during the "worst 15 minutes of basketball"

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

And if I offended BillyMac, I apologize.

No offense taken. No need to apologize. Hey. I've gone one on one with Jurassic Referee on this Forum, and lived to tell about it. After that, nothing on the Forum offends me. Dr. Jurassic Referee immunized me against "offense". Plus, I should have never posted that Sargent Schultz video, which I'm sure, many Forum members found to be offensive. But I won't apologize. If God didn't want me to post videos on the Forum, he would have never invented YouTube.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

If God didn't want me to post videos on the Forum, he would have never invented YouTube.

God thinks further ahead than that. If he didn't want you to post videos on the Forum, he would have never invented Al Gore.