Coach's leash

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

...general comments about not liking one official to call both maybe, but nothing that rose to the level of needing the evil "roll eyes" smilie!

Originally Posted by VaTerp

You partially quoted me and took it out of context for your eye roll.

My comment was based on the fact that I like to plan for the extreme so I'm not surprised by most things that occur. It is probably fueled by my (cynical) opinions that humans are human and will often stoop very low when it fits their need. But I digress.

I had a situation very similar to the one I posted while living in the DC area. One partner calls a T on a coach, the coach is literally foaming at the mouth (not exaggerating) and comes onto the court after my partner. My second partner starts to make a move to call the second T and I get to him to stop him. My immediate thought was if that coach is going to come at my first partner literally like a rabid dog, he deserves the honor of chucking him out of the game. Fortunately, my partners were two of my good friends in the area and this whole thing was smooth (BNR probably knows exactly what two officials I'm talking about).

My "evil eye roll" was basked more on my own experience. Hey, can we get a stop sign smilie? It will work for everything.

[keith_15]

Ahhh, the old "sit down and shut up" trick. That really never works like you want it to. Remember, whatever you say to a coach should be short and sweet - a one liner. The other prerequisite is that whatever you say should be the end of the conversation.

[Rich]

Coach ejections are incredibly rare in basketball, in my experience. I've personally ejected 2 in 26 years of officiating basketball. On the first one, I called both technicals -- including one in the hallway at halftime when the coach followed us down the hall. On the second one I only called the second technical. The first one was sometime about 1991 and the second one was, I think, in 1995 or so. One was a JV boys game and the other was a varsity boys game.

My point is this -- it happens so infrequently, in my experience, that it's ludicrous to try to have some arbitrary rule of thumb for who should get the "honor" of doing it. On the other hand, a technical foul on a coach is *not* that rare of an experience, so the number of times that a coach flies off the handle and picks up a second one is incredibly rare, in my experience. Does this mean that it won't happen tomorrow? Of course not -- it could. But it likely won't.

Does this mean that we can't have best practice -- such as the official that calls the technical puts himself in the best position away from the coach and has a partner seatbelt the coach? Of course not. OTOH, if I'm reporting the technical foul and the coach flies off the handle or doesn't stop, I am *not* running away from him so my partner can come in and save the day. It's up to the coach to keep himself in the game, not up to me to ignore his behavior to keep him there.

[OKREF]

Just want to make one thing clear. In this situation the calling official really had no option. He gave the first one and the coach followed him up the line and never stopped talking to the official. I might not have made that clear. He got stuck, and kept on even after the coach was told to sit down. This all happened in about 15 seconds.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by tomegun

My "evil eye roll" was basked more on my own experience. Hey, can we get a stop sign smilie? It will work for everything.

I always thought of it as the "talk to the hand" mechanic -- one of the most dismissive things an adult could do to another adult.

[maven]

Originally Posted by Rich

On the second one I only called the second technical. The first one was sometime about 1991 and the second one was, I think, in 1995 or so.

Wow, 4 years between technicals, and you still ejected the guy! The second one must have been a doozie!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by maven

Wow, 4 years between technicals, and you still ejected the guy! The second one must have been a doozie!

Reading in context is your friend.

[keith_15]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Just want to make one thing clear. In this situation the calling official really had no option. He gave the first one and the coach followed him up the line and never stopped talking to the official. I might not have made that clear. He got stuck, and kept on even after the coach was told to sit down. This all happened in about 15 seconds.

Questions: Was the calling official table side when he first stuck the coach? After sticking the coach, did the official walk/jog to the table area along the same sideline that the coach was on? Did everyone in the gym hear him say "That was bull...!"

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by keith_15

Questions: Was the calling official table side when he first stuck the coach? After sticking the coach, did the official walk/jog to the table area along the same sideline that the coach was on? Did everyone in the gym hear him say "That was bull...!"

He was table side. Walked up the court towards the table, coach right on his heels. Not everyone heard it, however everyone at the table heard it.

[keith_15]

Originally Posted by keith_15

Questions: Was the calling official table side when he first stuck the coach? After sticking the coach, did the official walk/jog to the table area along the same sideline that the coach was on? Did everyone in the gym hear him say "That was bull...!"

I ask these silly questions because I have learned that there are ways to avoid those situations. Obviously this coach went a little nuts. BUT, have you ever noticed that if you walk by a barking dog in a cage, the closer you get the louder they bark? Step back and they quiet down a little.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by Rich

I always thought of it as the "talk to the hand" mechanic -- one of the most dismissive things an adult could do to another adult.

And this is why I mention it. I see it mentioned like it is really a tool officials should use...and after the stop sign everything is going to change. Yeah right. If you want to push someone over the edge, give them a stop sign.

Now I could use an evil eye roll.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tomegun

And this is why I mention it. I see it mentioned like it is really a tool officials should use...and after the stop sign everything is going to change. Yeah right. If you want to push someone over the edge, give them a stop sign.

Now I could use an evil eye roll.

I've tried it a few times, and ended up giving a T more often than not. I prefer to talk to the coach, using words. I know it works for some (because they told me so), so I'm not going to completely dismiss its use. I don't, however, recommend it, for the same reasons tomegun and Rich mention here.

[Adam]

I've only tossed one coach, and assistant in a summer game last summer. He earned the second T before I could finish reporting the first T so called and reported both.

I did get some good feedback from a partner following a player T in another summer game. I apparently looked pretty pissed when I called it, and my partner told me as much. The main point was, we're the only ones out there who are able to maintain order in a tense situation, and we can't do that if we aren't calm.

Telling the coach to "sit down and be quiet" is only going to fuel the fire. It probably would have exploded anyway, but I'd rather be able to look back and say I didn't push any unnecessary buttons.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by keith_15

I ask these silly questions because I have learned that there are ways to avoid those situations. Obviously this coach went a little nuts. BUT, have you ever noticed that if you walk by a barking dog in a cage, the closer you get the louder they bark? Step back and they quiet down a little.

Sometimes.

Other times they just go more nuts...dogs and coaches.

As Rich and Tom both have pointed out, there are nice rules of thumb, but sometimes the rules of thumb just don't fit. This OP sounds like one of those times...

For the record, I have ejected three coaches also in over 20 years of officiating. In all 3 cases I gave all the Ts involved. One instance was a case where a coach jumped up and yelled at an opposing player "You little motherf---er"

[Adam]

Originally Posted by keith_15

Questions: Was the calling official table side when he first stuck the coach? After sticking the coach, did the official walk/jog to the table area along the same sideline that the coach was on? Did everyone in the gym hear him say "That was bull...!"

I frankly don't care if everyone in the gym heard it.