Coach's leash

[ballgame99]

I agree the 'sit down and be quiet' response was probably not appropriate, but what would most here advise he should have done? I'm assuming a simple 'that's enough coach' with a stop sign would be sufficient?

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

I agree the 'sit down and be quiet' response was probably not appropriate, but what would most here advise he should have done? I'm assuming a simple 'that's enough coach' with a stop sign would be sufficient?

Official who issued the first T should have gotten out of there and his partner should have told the coach any version of, "Coach you've lost the box for the rest of the game and need to have a seat."

Sounds like this Coach would have been tossed regardless but I think we should always be looking at potential learning moments and the best ways to handle situations.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

I agree the 'sit down and be quiet' response was probably not appropriate, but what would most here advise he should have done? I'm assuming a simple 'that's enough coach' with a stop sign would be sufficient?

Too late for "that's enough" as he already has been T'd up. Saying nothing is probably the best thing to do and if the coach continues with his diatribe then a 2nd 'T' would be my next action.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

I agree the 'sit down and be quiet' response was probably not appropriate, but what would most here advise he should have done? I'm assuming a simple 'that's enough coach' with a stop sign would be sufficient?

He already said, "That's enough coach" with his hands when he put them together into a T. He needs say nothing else. If the guy earns another T on his own after that - hopefully it comes from partner, but it doesn't have to.

[twocentsworth]

The official was right to give the 2nd T and eject.....

Based on the OP, the coach was right to complain about the shot being waved off. The determining factor is NOT the # of steps after the foul is called....the shot begins once the player gathers the ball in his/her natural shooting motion.

BOTH official AND coach were each wrong in the situation described.

[rekent]

Originally Posted by OKREF

A1 drives to basket, Trail calls push on B1, after whistle A1 takes another dribble and shoots.

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

The official was right to give the 2nd T and eject.....

Based on the OP, the coach was right to complain about the shot being waved off. The determining factor is NOT the # of steps after the foul is called....the shot begins once the player gathers the ball in his/her natural shooting motion.

BOTH official AND coach were each wrong in the situation described.

Am I missing something? Ball hadn't been gathered and coach was completely wrong start to finish. (with the exception of official's word choice)

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

The official was right to give the 2nd T and eject.....

Based on the OP, the coach was right to complain about the shot being waved off. The determining factor is NOT the # of steps after the foul is called....the shot begins once the player gathers the ball in his/her natural shooting motion.

BOTH official AND coach were each wrong in the situation described.

Good grief...the OP says the player TOOK ANOTHER DRIBBLE!!

Wrong.

Just. Wrong.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

The official was right to give the 2nd T and eject.....

Based on the OP, the coach was right to complain about the shot being waved off. The determining factor is NOT the # of steps after the foul is called....the shot begins once the player gathers the ball in his/her natural shooting motion.

BOTH official AND coach were each wrong in the situation described.

Do yourself a favor and read the OP again. I've never seen a player dribble after he gathered for a shot.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

The official was right to give the 2nd T and eject.....

Based on the OP, the coach was right to complain about the shot being waved off. The determining factor is NOT the # of steps after the foul is called....the shot begins once the player gathers the ball in his/her natural shooting motion.

BOTH official AND coach were each wrong in the situation described.

Wrong. Try again. Reading is fundamental.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

And I also like for someone else to toss him after one official has issued the first T. That way you reduce the appearance of it being personal.

Originally Posted by OKREF

...We as well would not prefer to have the same official give both T's in any situation...

"Hey partner, he is coming on the court, calling me a MFer, but I gave him the first T. Can you give him the second? Please?"

If a coach comes after me and it is personal, I will handle my own business. I will allow any of my partners to do the same if a coach comes after them.

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Not too quick for the second. I have no problem calling both myself, too. Take care of business.

+1

Originally Posted by APG

I think people take the not giving two T's to a coach back to back too far...

+1,000,000

Originally Posted by ballgame99

I agree the 'sit down and be quiet' response was probably not appropriate, but what would most here advise he should have done? I'm assuming a simple 'that's enough coach' with a stop sign would be sufficient?

And there we have it...the answer to the entire situation. Flash the almighty stop sign and things fall right back into place. Sure, I give "the hand" to other adults all the time and they just accept that and stop what they are doing. My wife gives me "the hand" and I stop. Nope, that isn't something that would make the situation worse at all.

[rekent]

Originally Posted by tomegun

"Hey partner, he is coming on the court, calling me a MFer, but I gave him the first T. Can you give him the second? Please?"

Oh I am so glad I was not taking a drink when I read that. Absolutely agree though, sounds like the coach didn't even pause long enough between 1 and 2 for the official to report and clear out. Seems both that quick from the same guy were easily justified.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by tomegun

"Hey partner, he is coming on the court, calling me a MFer, but I gave him the first T. Can you give him the second? Please?"

If a coach comes after me and it is personal, I will handle my own business. I will allow any of my partners to do the same if a coach comes after them:

maybe I missed a post or two, but I don't think anyone other than twenty wort (which is two cents more than his opinion should be worth) banged on the official for calling both Ts in this situation...general comments about not liking one official to call both maybe, but nothing that rose to the level of needing the evil "roll eyes" smilie!

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by tomegun

"Hey partner, he is coming on the court, calling me a MFer, but I gave him the first T. Can you give him the second? Please?"

If a coach comes after me and it is personal, I will handle my own business. I will allow any of my partners to do the same if a coach comes after them.

You partially quoted me and took it out of context for your eye roll.

I said what I prefer but also said you do what you have to do. If one official has to issue two Ts and toss a coach, fine.

My only point was that ideally the calling official isnt the one talking to the coach telling him to sit down. And is far enough away from the coach that one of his partners is closer, hears the MF, and takes care of business for the crew.

But again if it ends up like the situation in the OP then so be it.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

...general comments about not liking one official to call both maybe, but nothing that rose to the level of needing the evil "roll eyes" smilie!

Originally Posted by VaTerp

You partially quoted me and took it out of context for your eye roll.

My comment was based on the fact that I like to plan for the extreme so I'm not surprised by most things that occur. It is probably fueled by my (cynical) opinions that humans are human and will often stoop very low when it fits their need. But I digress.

I had a situation very similar to the one I posted while living in the DC area. One partner calls a T on a coach, the coach is literally foaming at the mouth (not exaggerating) and comes onto the court after my partner. My second partner starts to make a move to call the second T and I get to him to stop him. My immediate thought was if that coach is going to come at my first partner literally like a rabid dog, he deserves the honor of chucking him out of the game. Fortunately, my partners were two of my good friends in the area and this whole thing was smooth (BNR probably knows exactly what two officials I'm talking about).

My "evil eye roll" was basked more on my own experience. Hey, can we get a stop sign smilie? It will work for everything.

[Rich]

Coach ejections are incredibly rare in basketball, in my experience. I've personally ejected 2 in 26 years of officiating basketball. On the first one, I called both technicals -- including one in the hallway at halftime when the coach followed us down the hall. On the second one I only called the second technical. The first one was sometime about 1991 and the second one was, I think, in 1995 or so. One was a JV boys game and the other was a varsity boys game.

My point is this -- it happens so infrequently, in my experience, that it's ludicrous to try to have some arbitrary rule of thumb for who should get the "honor" of doing it. On the other hand, a technical foul on a coach is *not* that rare of an experience, so the number of times that a coach flies off the handle and picks up a second one is incredibly rare, in my experience. Does this mean that it won't happen tomorrow? Of course not -- it could. But it likely won't.

Does this mean that we can't have best practice -- such as the official that calls the technical puts himself in the best position away from the coach and has a partner seatbelt the coach? Of course not. OTOH, if I'm reporting the technical foul and the coach flies off the handle or doesn't stop, I am *not* running away from him so my partner can come in and save the day. It's up to the coach to keep himself in the game, not up to me to ignore his behavior to keep him there.