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[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by APG

I don't know, but if all things being equal as far as costs go, I'd still want the shot clock for the high school game (which is what I'm assuming you're leading too with this question).

And we would have so many problems with the shot clock and these situation than we ever would without the shot clock. We have a ton of problems just at the small college level. I can imagine some parent doing the shot clock and all the times the clock starts too early or does not get reset properly.

Peace

[APG]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And we would have so many problems with the shot clock and these situation than we ever would without the shot clock. We have a ton of problems just at the small college level. I can imagine some parent doing the shot clock and all the times the clock starts too early or does not get reset properly.

Peace

Would there be some issues compared to college and the pros? Sure, but I think after an initial adjustment period, I don't think it would be that big of an issue...just my opinion (and I've been known to be wrong a time or two lol).

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by APG

Would there be some issues compared to college and the pros? Sure, but I think after an initial adjustment period, I don't think it would be that big of an issue...just my opinion (and I've been known to be wrong a time or two lol).

I think the issues are not just about the shot clock itself. The issues would be things that need to be corrected or debated and argued with the participants all the time. In small college even when I am paying attention I see a lot of misapplication of the shot clock by the table people there. It happens so often that most of the time you start to make concessions for minor mistakes that if you tried to correct every time, you would spend another 20 minutes added to each game.

And if I had not seen HS people screw up play clocks in football or simple game clock situation, I would have a different opinion. Just Wednesday I was working a HS tournament where we were at a college and I had to correct the game clock like 3 or 4 times. And I consider myself to be very good with the clock because of my college background and was taught to pay attention. I can easily see officials not noticing these things and having major mistakes going unnoticed. It took me time to be that cognizant of the clock and most HS officials have a problem calling travels right, now we are going to have them now follow a shot clock? Do you know how many debates I have had with officials about the last second shot and they are convinced that someone other than the opposite table official should watch the clock or go the the "Cadillac" position all because they think watching the clock is going to help them see a last second shot better. Now we want to involved another element to that equation when they cannot get the basic stuff right now? No thank you. It would be an administrative disaster in a big state like this as there is so much inconsistency as to who ran the shot clock and how much attention to detail they would have to the people that even were responsible.

Peace

[APG]

There are certainly points there I don't disagree with you there JRut...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by APG

There are certainly points there I don't disagree with you there JRut...

In a perfect world I would have no problem with a change. I just do not think it would be worth all the headaches we already have on top of this situation.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by APG

Would there be some issues compared to college and the pros? Sure, but I think after an initial adjustment period, I don't think it would be that big of an issue...just my opinion (and I've been known to be wrong a time or two lol).

APG, there would be problems where you currently work HS ball.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

In a perfect world I would have no problem with a change. I just do not think it would be worth all the headaches we already have on top of this situation.

Peace

I really don't see this as a problem worth solving. I can count on one hand the number of times I see a possession last up to a minute, and that's being generous. It wouldn't be worth the headaches because there'd be virtually no benefit around here.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Adam

I really don't see this as a problem worth solving. I can count on one hand the number of times I see a possession last up to a minute, and that's being generous. It wouldn't be worth the headaches because there'd be virtually no benefit around here.

The most egregious and most substantial case I've seen was in the 2012 Oregon 5A girls state championship.

Class 5A girls championship: Springfield defeats Willamette 16-7 after Wolverines' stall tactics fail - OregonLive.com

Springfield led 4-0 at the end of the first half, 7-1 at the end of the third quarter, and never came close to letting Willamette into the game down the stretch of the lowest scoring championship final in the history of Oregon high school basketball at any level.

The final was 16-7. It was an atrocity to watch.

[Adam]

My point is not that it never happens, but that the frequency of these "problems" isn't high enough to justify the headaches associated with the proposed solutions.

[rockyroad]

Since we have completely hijacked Jim's thread...

We have had the shot. Lock in Washington State for a number of years. It really is not that hard to deal with, and the problems are not as numerous as some of us on this board are saying...even during the "transition period", it just wasn't that bad. And we have 30 seconds for girls and 35 for boys...not that big of a deal.

[Kingsman1288]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

It really is not that hard to deal with, and the problems are not as numerous as some of us on this board are saying....

Agree. The only time I ever encounter issues with it is during the early stages of the season and even then its not that bad. Most of the schools around here have operators who have been doing it for years so they pretty much have it down.

I wish all states would use a shot clock. It would cut down on the time explaining to visiting teams from out of state how it works, when it resets, etc.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It took me time to be that cognizant of the clock and most HS officials have a problem calling travels right, now we are going to have them now follow a shot clock?

Peace

...SAY WHAT? REALLY?

Are you trying to tell this forum that "MOST HIGH SCHOOL" officials have a problem calling travels right? MOST OFFICIALS?

C'MON Man...

BTW...I don't mind the shot clock at all, here in Washington State. Sure there are times you deal with it...no big deal.

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Since we have completely hijacked Jim's thread...

We have had the shot. Lock in Washington State for a number of years. It really is not that hard to deal with, and the problems are not as numerous as some of us on this board are saying...even during the "transition period", it just wasn't that bad. And we have 30 seconds for girls and 35 for boys...not that big of a deal.

Not a big deal on the hijacking...thankfully it wasn't my plane.

I deliberately held off any comment so that I did not taint the jury pool to see what the responses would be like.

What happened was the L official noticed the reset on the catch/kick out and as the clock hit 34 started to blow the play dead for the improper reset of the shot clock. Did not anticipate the catch and shoot. Once we got the situation corrected, the visiting coach said thanks for doing the right thing, the home coach did not get mad (it was his clock operator). They still scored on the possession.

The options we discussed:
Inadvertent Whistle - count the 3 and move on,
Definite knowledge of time on shot clock - neither outside official knew how much time was left when shot was taken,
Give the ball back to white with 11 seconds - shot clock has recall option.

[HawkeyeCubP]

FWIW, I worked in California for 5 years, with a shot clock at the HS level, and not only enjoyed it, but saw less shot clock issues in my HS games than in my juco games.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

Not a big deal on the hijacking...thankfully it wasn't my plane.

I'll take responsibility for this hijack. I guess I won't becoming an air marshall anytime soon.

I appreciate the replies, though. I suppose I was looking for some ammunition locally when I take my anti-shot-clock stance, and while I agree with JRut's points, I'd be foolish to overlook the experience from Rocky and Kings.

Like any other state in the non-shot-clock majority, I have to tell my fellow statesmen, if you really want a shot clock, either a) our state's commission will have to give up its NFHS vote, or b) the NFHS will have to approve it for state adoption, and it would be right back in our commission's hands, anyway. I just don't see it happening here, and the stall ball games are few and far between, anyway, although the pro-shot-clock crowd act like stall-ball should NEVER happen.