"Shooting" at own basket

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by representing

That just led me to a question though... what if the ball goes into the wrong basket when a player, in shooting motion, is fouled? I think this is dead ball and the basket doesn't count, but may need someone to confirm that.

Correct. The ball is dead on the foul.

But, your wording, while I knew what you meant with your question, could be twisted such that it was asking something entirely different. So, let's do so just a bit to have some fun...

What if, with 2 seconds left on the clock, A1 attempts to heave a 75 foot shot from the backcourt FT lane but in doing so gets fouled such that the ball is deflected directly into the wrong basket.

I know this will not happen, but what if it did....what would you rule?

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Correct. The ball is dead on the foul.

But, your wording, while I knew what you meant with your question, could be twisted such that it was asking something entirely different. So, let's do so just a bit to have some fun...

What if, with 2 seconds left on the clock, A1 attempts to heave a 75 foot shot from the backcourt FT lane but in doing so gets fouled such that the ball is deflected directly into the wrong basket.

I know this will not happen, but what if it did....what would you rule?

I want to say no because the ball becomes dead on a shot after a foul when it is obvious that the try is going to be unsuccessful. The player is shooting towards his own goal and a deflection /foul causing it to go into the wrong basket would certainly mean the try had ended prior to it going into the wrong basket.
But, If your scenario went like this: try , deflection of ball back into basket, foul, horn. I just opened another can of worms. Going to count the points for the made "wrong" basket, then 3 fts to the original player with lanes cleared. Isn't this fun?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

But, If your scenario went like this: try , deflection of ball back into basket, foul, horn. I just opened another can of worms. Going to count the points for the made "wrong" basket, then 3 fts to the original player with lanes cleared. Isn't this fun?

How could it be a shooting foul if the foul occurs after the ball is deflected into the wrong basket? And why did you clear the lane?

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by just another ref

How could it be a shooting foul if the foul occurs after the ball is deflected into the wrong basket? And why did you clear the lane?

It is a shooting foul because he was heaving toward his own basket. If the deflection goes into the opposing teams basket and then he gets fouled on the way down, he was still in the act of shooting. Are you suggesting that because the ball entered the basket before the foul that the act of shooting has already ended or that because the ball is dead, any foul unless intentional or flagrant should be considered incidental?

The lane is cleared because time expired as the foul was committed. End of period so lanes cleared.

All of this is extremely hypothetical and pretty much impossible but what if...

[representing]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

I want to say no because the ball becomes dead on a shot after a foul when it is obvious that the try is going to be unsuccessful. The player is shooting towards his own goal and a deflection /foul causing it to go into the wrong basket would certainly mean the try had ended prior to it going into the wrong basket.
But, If your scenario went like this: try , deflection of ball back into basket, foul, horn. I just opened another can of worms. Going to count the points for the made "wrong" basket, then 3 fts to the original player with lanes cleared. Isn't this fun?

Originally Posted by just another ref

How could it be a shooting foul if the foul occurs after the ball is deflected into the wrong basket? And why did you clear the lane?

If that ever happens to me, I'm running out of the gym and hanging up my whistle for good.

But, to keep this going, I'm going to say this, however I'm only guessing and have no idea what would be right or wrong... wrong basket is good off the deflection, foul is no longer a shooting foul because the ball has entered the opposing basket legally, making that play dead. If time was still on the clock at the point the foul occurred according to one of the officials, put time back on the clock and take the ball OOB closest to the spot of the foul.

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by representing

If that ever happens to me, I'm running out of the gym and hanging up my whistle for good.

But, to keep this going, I'm going to say this, however I'm only guessing and have no idea what would be right or wrong... wrong basket is good off the deflection, foul is no longer a shooting foul because the ball has entered the opposing basket legally, making that play dead. If time was still on the clock at the point the foul occurred according to one of the officials, put time back on the clock and take the ball OOB closest to the spot of the foul.

I like this explanation, but it now makes me think about fouls during the time between the ball going through the basket and it being picked up by inbounding team. If the ball is dead during this time period, isn't it true that there can not be a foul during this time period unless intentional or flagrant?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

I like this explanation, but it now makes me think about fouls during the time between the ball going through the basket and it being picked up by inbounding team. If the ball is dead during this time period, isn't it true that there can not be a foul during this time period unless intentional or flagrant?

That explanation is incorrect by rule.

Your further thoughts are correct, that would be dead ball contact and should be treated accordingly.

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by Adam

That explanation is incorrect by rule.

Your further thoughts are correct, that would be dead ball contact and should be treated accordingly.

I figured out why the explanation is incorrect. 4-19-1 note.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

I figured out why the explanation is incorrect. 4-19-1 note.

I was talking about the explanation of why it wouldn't be a shooting foul.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

there can not be a foul during this time period unless intentional or flagrant?

and in two other cases ... (trying to "teach you to fish")

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

I want to say no because the ball becomes dead on a shot after a foul when it is obvious that the try is going to be unsuccessful. The player is shooting towards his own goal and a deflection /foul causing it to go into the wrong basket would certainly mean the try had ended prior to it going into the wrong basket.
But, If your scenario went like this: try , deflection of ball back into basket, foul, horn. I just opened another can of worms. Going to count the points for the made "wrong" basket, then 3 fts to the original player with lanes cleared. Isn't this fun?

I agree with your ruling.

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I agree with your ruling.

At least someone does.

[representing]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Correct. The ball is dead on the foul.

But, your wording, while I knew what you meant with your question, could be twisted such that it was asking something entirely different. So, let's do so just a bit to have some fun...

What if, with 2 seconds left on the clock, A1 attempts to heave a 75 foot shot from the backcourt FT lane but in doing so gets fouled such that the ball is deflected directly into the wrong basket.

I know this will not happen, but what if it did....what would you rule?

Not looking at the rulebook, I'm going to go with common sense and say that the reason a try can still happen while a player is in shooting motion and is fouled for is for advantage reasons. With this idea in mind, I would say the shot in the wrong basket is not an advantage to the offended team and will not count, and you continue with FTs for the offended player.

What do you think, Camron?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by representing

Not looking at the rulebook, I'm going to go with common sense and say that the reason a try can still happen while a player is in shooting motion and is fouled for is for advantage reasons. With this idea in mind, I would say the shot in the wrong basket is not an advantage to the offended team and will not count, and you continue with FTs for the offended player.

What do you think, Camron?

1. The player attempted to shoot towards his own basket, where the ball ended up is immaterial in deciding whether it is a shooting foul.

2. If a player is fouled while shooting towards his opponent's basket, that is not a shooting foul, and free throws are only granted if the bonus is in effect.