Illegal Screen or Not

[Scrapper1]

1) I think it's a pretty weak call. Technically, the screen is not stationary, but it has nothing to do with the play; there's no advantage at all.

2) Definitely should be a whistle from the C, if there's going to be a whistle.

3) I don't have a problem with the L making a call in this type of situation (although, as I said, I think was an incorrect call). There's no competitive match-up in the L's primary, so I think it's ok to expand your vision to the opposite block. In fact, he almost initiates a rotation before the ball wide.

[BLydic]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

1) I think it's a pretty weak call. Technically, the screen is set, but it has nothing to do with the play; there's no advantage at all.

Just curious and learning ... so if the offensive player who is freed up by the screen gets a pass at the low block instead of an outside shot being taken, you wouldn't think advantage gained?

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by BLydic

if the offensive player who is freed up by the screen gets a pass at the low block instead of an outside shot being taken, you wouldn't think advantage gained?

You answered your own question, didn't you?

[BLydic]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

You answered your own question, didn't you?

I guess, but I was asking you the question since you didn't see any advantage gained. How about if the shot missed and the freed up player had the ball drop in his lap and easily scored, do you feel that an advantage was gained then too? I guess what I'm getting at is do you really wait for an obvious advantage gained on this type of play before you get it?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BLydic

I guess, but I was asking you the question since you didn't see any advantage gained.

The way you worded your question changed the scenario completely by adding an immediate advantage.

Originally Posted by BLydic

I guess what I'm getting at is do you really wait for an obvious advantage gained on this type of play before you get it?

Well, isn't that what we do on all contact before calling a foul?

[BLydic]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The way you worded your question changed the scenario completely by adding an immediate advantage.



Well, isn't that what we do on all contact before calling a foul?

Thanks for helping Snaqs ...

Not sure what you mean by "adding an immediate advantage". I'm in agreement that there really is no immediate advantage gained in this video, primarily because an outside shot was taken and the foul was called stopping play. However, an offensive player did get free from his defender because of the illegal screen and I'm simply asking if that's not enough to put air in the fox40? Otherwise, I'm letting this screen go, the freed up offensive player ends up scoring an easy bucket 14' away from the screen and I'm kicking myself for not getting it when it happened.

BTW, I'm all for a very patient whistle and seeing the whole play. It's just this off ball stuff that I'm wrestling with and wanting to be consistent.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by BLydic

It's just this off ball stuff that I'm wrestling with and wanting to be consistent.

If that play made you think "Oh my God!", then it needed a whistle from the Lead. If it just made you think "Hmmm. Better watch that guy", then it didn't need a whistle.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BLydic

Thanks for helping Snaqs ...

Not sure what you mean by "adding an immediate advantage". I'm in agreement that there really is no immediate advantage gained in this video, primarily because an outside shot was taken and the foul was called stopping play. However, an offensive player did get free from his defender because of the illegal screen and I'm simply asking if that's not enough to put air in the fox40? Otherwise, I'm letting this screen go, the freed up offensive player ends up scoring an easy bucket 14' away from the screen and I'm kicking myself for not getting it when it happened.

BTW, I'm all for a very patient whistle and seeing the whole play. It's just this off ball stuff that I'm wrestling with and wanting to be consistent.

I meant that you changed the scenario from what was in the video by making the "freed" player receive a pass. That completely changes it, and scrapper never said he wouldn't call that.

If a freed player gets a rebound, I'm not overly worried about that. If he catches a pass immediately after the screen, get the foul. If he catches a pass after the defense has had time to recover, I'm not going to lose any sleep over that one either.

OTOH, if you've been warning a player, getting something like this could just as easily straighten him out.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

1) I think it's a pretty weak call. Technically, the screen is not stationary, but it has nothing to do with the play; there's no advantage at all.

I think that was very weak. For one the defender goes around the screen and I am not convinced the contact really had any effect on the play or was really there. If you are going to call that screen, make it be there. I should not have to look at the video several times to decide which players were fouled or if there was any contact at all.

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

2) Definitely should be a whistle from the C, if there's going to be a whistle.

3) I don't have a problem with the L making a call in this type of situation (although, as I said, I think was an incorrect call). There's no competitive match-up in the L's primary, so I think it's ok to expand your vision to the opposite block. In fact, he almost initiates a rotation before the ball wide.

It seemed like to me he was looking to make an illegal screen call and stopped watching his competitive match-up that was in front of him. I guess the only way I would really be able to evaluate that call would be to see other screens in the game called or not called.

Peace

[canuckrefguy]

An illegal screen, but not a big one - and no advantage gained.

I'm not even sure I'd classify that as one of those "I don't wanna see that again" calls.

I will say that the C's body language doesn't exactly say "I'm engaged and I'm on top of things". But if the L is going to poach something eight feet from his partner, it had better be something a lot more egregious than that.

[Camron Rust]

I'm not so sure the illegal screen that was called was necessarily the everyone seems to think it is. There was another screen that occurred just outside the lane on the lead's side where the defender was trying to get out to the shot. The camera angle wasn't the best to see how much contact did occur there but is it possible that was the one called? (That is the one he should have been looking at).

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

especially when there were 4-5 players in the L's PCA when the whistle blew.

We're looking at different plays! I only count 2 players in the L's primary at the whistle and they are not even engaged. There are 3 or 4 players weaving through the very top of the L's primary, but they all move through until just 2 are left when the whistle blows.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I'm not so sure the illegal screen that was called was necessarily the everyone seems to think it is. There was another screen that occurred just outside the lane on the lead's side where the defender was trying to get out to the shot. The camera angle wasn't the best to see how much contact did occur there but is it possible that was the one called? (That is the one he should have been looking at).

I see it now, Camron, but there's no way that's what he called. He never once looked at that kid. In fact, he walks right past that kid, staring at the kid on the opposite side of the lane to report.

And even if that was the screen he called, it wasn't a much better call than the one on the other side of the lane.

[JugglingReferee]

To me, it doesn't matter which call anyone is talking about. I don't see any illegal screen that I'd call from any position on the court.

After looking at it again, the only possible I.S. could be on 54 Red, and it's a piss-poor call, imho.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

We're looking at different plays! I only count 2 players in the L's primary at the whistle and they are not even engaged. There are 3 or 4 players weaving through the very top of the L's primary, but they all move through until just 2 are left when the whistle blows.

...

The Lead may not have had any competitive match-ups in his primary but his secondary look should have been to help the Trail off-ball once the play moved to the Trail's primary. The C only had 3 players, he shouldn't have needed any help.

[7IronRef]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I'm not so sure the illegal screen that was called was necessarily the everyone seems to think it is. There was another screen that occurred just outside the lane on the lead's side where the defender was trying to get out to the shot. The camera angle wasn't the best to see how much contact did occur there but is it possible that was the one called? (That is the one he should have been looking at).

The play you are referring to is nothing. The screen did not even impede the defender.

The play in question is the C's play although he still had a count as the player started to pass to the shooter. Looking at his head position, there is no way he saw the screen taking place only a few feet away clearly.