Illegal Screen or Not

[cmathews]

I agree from the C it doesn't look huge...however, I am guessing from the L the way the player leans and uses his shoulder/elbow, it looks much different. Not a huge advantage, but I want this one. Again, the way the shoulder/elbow come into play this looks like one to get to keep it from getting rougher later..

IMHO

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BLydic

I guess, but I was asking you the question since you didn't see any advantage gained.

The way you worded your question changed the scenario completely by adding an immediate advantage.

Originally Posted by BLydic

I guess what I'm getting at is do you really wait for an obvious advantage gained on this type of play before you get it?

Well, isn't that what we do on all contact before calling a foul?

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I should not have to look at the video several times to decide which players were fouled or if there was any contact at all.

There it is.

I wonder whether the lead official was saying "knock off the elbowing" that call. Yes, there was an elbow on Red 54. Did it create a significant advantage? I don't think so. Just the same, should we consider whether that contact is worthy of Red losing the ball?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bainsey

There it is.

I wonder whether the lead official was saying "knock off the elbowing" that call. Yes, there was an elbow on Red 54. Did it create a significant advantage? I don't think so. Just the same, should we consider whether that contact is worthy of Red losing the ball?

Additionally, we don't know what else happened in that game prior to that point. Maybe they had trouble with on one of those players previously, were watching them closely, and were not going to let anything go.

[BLydic]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The way you worded your question changed the scenario completely by adding an immediate advantage.



Well, isn't that what we do on all contact before calling a foul?

Thanks for helping Snaqs ...

Not sure what you mean by "adding an immediate advantage". I'm in agreement that there really is no immediate advantage gained in this video, primarily because an outside shot was taken and the foul was called stopping play. However, an offensive player did get free from his defender because of the illegal screen and I'm simply asking if that's not enough to put air in the fox40? Otherwise, I'm letting this screen go, the freed up offensive player ends up scoring an easy bucket 14' away from the screen and I'm kicking myself for not getting it when it happened.

BTW, I'm all for a very patient whistle and seeing the whole play. It's just this off ball stuff that I'm wrestling with and wanting to be consistent.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by BLydic

It's just this off ball stuff that I'm wrestling with and wanting to be consistent.

If that play made you think "Oh my God!", then it needed a whistle from the Lead. If it just made you think "Hmmm. Better watch that guy", then it didn't need a whistle.

[BLydic]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

If that play made you think "Oh my God!", then it needed a whistle from the Lead. If it just made you think "Hmmm. Better watch that guy", then it didn't need a whistle.

No, it wasn't even close to an "Oh my God" play and I wouldn't have a problem letting the screener know that he was a bit wide on that play at the next opportunity. I was just responding as if we needed to either make or not make the call based on the video. As with all video, we have no idea what the game or this player has been like prior to the call, which all factor into the overall situation.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909

Isn't the C a little too high?

He's okay. 3 feet (i.e., one stride) on either side of the FT line extended is fine. Given where the action is he was in a good spot to see whatever happened.

[canuckrefguy]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

If that play made you think "Oh my God!", then it needed a whistle from the Lead. If it just made you think "Hmmm. Better watch that guy", then it didn't need a whistle.

It was explained to me this way long ago:

"oh sh**" = pass
"of f***" = whistle

[BillyMac]

Illegal screen. Would have liked to have seen the optional bird dog signal here, because it took me three viewings to catch the illegal screen on the weak side of the court. The player that used the screen did get to move across the lane to the strong side, and would have been momentarily open in the low post position to get an offensive rebound if the official had not sounded his whistle. I really wish that coaches would teach their kids how to set, and use, screens properly. It's so easy to teach. Set the screen and don't move. Use the screen by going shoulder to shoulder past the screener. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BLydic

Thanks for helping Snaqs ...

Not sure what you mean by "adding an immediate advantage". I'm in agreement that there really is no immediate advantage gained in this video, primarily because an outside shot was taken and the foul was called stopping play. However, an offensive player did get free from his defender because of the illegal screen and I'm simply asking if that's not enough to put air in the fox40? Otherwise, I'm letting this screen go, the freed up offensive player ends up scoring an easy bucket 14' away from the screen and I'm kicking myself for not getting it when it happened.

BTW, I'm all for a very patient whistle and seeing the whole play. It's just this off ball stuff that I'm wrestling with and wanting to be consistent.

I meant that you changed the scenario from what was in the video by making the "freed" player receive a pass. That completely changes it, and scrapper never said he wouldn't call that.

If a freed player gets a rebound, I'm not overly worried about that. If he catches a pass immediately after the screen, get the foul. If he catches a pass after the defense has had time to recover, I'm not going to lose any sleep over that one either.

OTOH, if you've been warning a player, getting something like this could just as easily straighten him out.

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Illegal screen. Would have liked to have seen the optional bird dog signal here, because it took me three viewings to catch the illegal screen on the weak side of the court. The player that used the screen did get to move across the lane to the strong side, and would have been momentarily open in the low post position to get an offensive rebound if the official had not sounded his whistle. I really wish that coaches would teach their kids how to set, and use, screens properly. It's so easy to teach. Set the screen and don't move. Use the screen by going shoulder to shoulder past the screener. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

As long as officials say "illegal screen, but not enough contact to warrant a whistle", why would you expect coaches to teach it another way.

I saw two screens. 1) screener facing our view, opposite the ball, with the screener leaning to his left to insure contact

2) at end of video, screen on the shooter's defender, just enough to make the defender go around, giving the shooter an open shot instead of a contested shot.

[7IronRef]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I'm not so sure the illegal screen that was called was necessarily the everyone seems to think it is. There was another screen that occurred just outside the lane on the lead's side where the defender was trying to get out to the shot. The camera angle wasn't the best to see how much contact did occur there but is it possible that was the one called? (That is the one he should have been looking at).

The play you are referring to is nothing. The screen did not even impede the defender.

The play in question is the C's play although he still had a count as the player started to pass to the shooter. Looking at his head position, there is no way he saw the screen taking place only a few feet away clearly.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by canuckrefguy

An illegal screen, but not a big one - and no advantage gained.

Then it's not illegal; it's incidental contact.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SamIAm

As long as officials say "illegal screen, but not enough contact to warrant a whistle", why would you expect coaches to teach it another way.

I saw two screens. 1) screener facing our view, opposite the ball, with the screener leaning to his left to insure contact

2) at end of video, screen on the shooter's defender, just enough to make the defender go around, giving the shooter an open shot instead of a contested shot.

A screen can be illegal by rule and not produce contact to warrant a foul. Defenders often try to just go around a screen and not run like normal. Coaches need to teach defenders to keep running or going to their spot instead of just avoiding a bad screen. Maybe then they would get a foul called.

Peace