Discussing a call with your partner

[tomegun]

Billy, I like all of that except blowing the whistle. If not absolutely necessary, I would leave that part off, but that is just me.

I like the straight forward approach:
Only come to me if you are 100% sure and it is something I obviously missed
Give clear information - "The ball went off white"
I will change it.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Billy, I like all of that except blowing the whistle. If not absolutely necessary, I would leave that part off, but that is just me.

I like the straight forward approach:
Only come to me if you are 100% sure and it is something I obviously missed
Give clear information - "The ball went off white"
I will change it.

I like an even more straight forward approach - only come to me, and I will only come to you, when help is asked for.

[walter]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I like an even more straight forward approach - only come to me, and I will only come to you, when help is asked for.

So Rocky, are you saying if you see your partner clearly get an OOB call wrong, (ie: clear tip off of red with no other touch and partner says and indicates red ball), you are not going to him/her unless he/she asks for help? If not, why?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by walter

So Rocky, are you saying if you see your partner clearly get an OOB call wrong, (ie: clear tip off of red with no other touch and partner says and indicates red ball), you are not going to him/her unless he/she asks for help? If not, why?

Yep.

My partner is right there and I am across/down the court. He/she has a better look at the play than I do...if everyone starts yelling and jumping around, my partner will ask me for help and I will give them any information I have. If everyone starts jumping around and yelling and my partner is confident that he/she got the call right, they won't ask for help and my response will be "hmmm - he/she saw something I didn't".

[tref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Yep.

My partner is right there and I am across/down the court. He/she has a better look at the play than I do...if everyone starts yelling and jumping around, my partner will ask me for help and I will give them any information I have. If everyone starts jumping around and yelling and my partner is confident that he/she got the call right, they won't ask for help and my response will be "hmmm - he/she saw something I didn't".

Out of curiousity, when you lead the pregame how do you discuss "helping partners" on OOB calls?

What do you do when working with a guy like myself, who doesnt believe in that practice & is all about getting the play right?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tref

Out of curiousity, when you lead the pregame how do you discuss "helping partners" on OOB calls?

What do you do when working with a guy like myself, who doesnt believe in that practice & is all about getting the play right?

Who said Rocky wasn't about getting the call right? He's about trusting that your partner will know if there's a chance he got it wrong.

Instead of trusting your partner to approach you if he sees something, you're trusting your partner to ask you if he thinks he may have missed it.

Either approach works if done by people who truly want to get the plays right, so I don't understand the subtle animosity towards those who approach it differently.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Who said Rocky wasn't about getting the call right? He's about trusting that your partner will know if there's a chance he got it wrong.

Instead of trusting your partner to approach you if he sees something, you're trusting your partner to ask you if he thinks he may have missed it.

Either approach works if done by people who truly want to get the plays right, so I don't understand the subtle animosity towards those who approach it differently.

I disagree, rockys approach is if they dont ask, I will not tell even if he has definitive info.
In my experiences, those who follow that mindset love to bring it up in the lockerroom, after the game when there is nothing you can do about it.

Others believe that they should provide the info & allow the calling official to decide what to do with the info.

When the boss asks about the questionable OOB call with 4 seconds left in a tied ballgame, I would like to be seen on film offering info as opposed to saying, "he didnt ask for help."
Because "he didnt ask for help" will lead to "did you see it?"
Thats just me...

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by tref

Out of curiousity, when you lead the pregame how do you discuss "helping partners" on OOB calls?

What do you do when working with a guy like myself, who doesnt believe in that practice & is all about getting the play right?

I believe this would cover it in my pre-games:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

... I don't give help on bang-bang plays in front of my partner. For me it has to be something he clearly could not have seen or that he clearly missed. But that's just me.

Regardless of how I do it, if you feel you need to help me on a play I'm going to accept your info and rule accordingly. But I'm not coming in on bang-bangs in front of you unless you ask for help.

[rt1111]

Im calling a 3 man spring league game. one of my partners is...getting up in age. hes easily 65 and it shows. hes almost never in position he is slow to signal and the fans and coaches are starting to get aggravated. we were shooting free throws. and Im the C. the second shot goes up and misses. me the T and everyone else in the gym sees it go out out on red. the L(everyones favorite official)calls it red ball. Im not defending anything I did or saying its something I normaly do, but everyone in the Gym knew it was white ball including my other partner. TOOT a little NBA hand slap and point in whites direction. did I botch this, should I have walked over and discussed it with him, is there a hybrid. anything to help me get beetter would by appreciated. no matter how you feel about it iff you have something in the officials manual that would be appreciated too.


PS alot of you guys call the pro league the NBE? what exactly does that stand for lol.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by tref

Out of curiousity, when you lead the pregame how do you discuss "helping partners" on OOB calls?

What do you do when working with a guy like myself, who doesnt believe in that practice & is all about getting the play right?

First of all, I will put my record of "getting calls right" and the level of games I have worked up against yours any day...so don't try to go there.

Secondly, in pregame(whether I am leading it or not) I will tell my partners that if they want my help, ask for it, and I will give it. If they don't ask, there's no reason for me to give help. And I tell them that if I want their help, I will ask for it. If I don't ask, I don't need their help.

So if I am working with you, and I call an oob and you come running down to me making a big show of helping me out, I will simply say "thank you", change the call to what you wanted it to be, and then do my best to never work with you again. And no, I will not bring it up in the locker room.

If I am working with you and I make an oob call and people start going nuts, I will think "hmmm, did I miss something here?" and then I will yell "Partner, you got something for me?". And then I will change my call or not based on the info you give me.

If I am working with you and you make an oob call and I have info you might want, I will hold my spot and stand there and smile at you stupidly. If you shake your head at me, away I go...if you want my information, you will ask me "Partner, you got something for me?"

Nice and simple...

[tref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

First of all, I will put my record of "getting calls right" and the level of games I have worked up against yours any day...so don't try to go there.

Secondly, in pregame(whether I am leading it or not) I will tell my partners that if they want my help, ask for it, and I will give it. If they don't ask, there's no reason for me to give help. And I tell them that if I want their help, I will ask for it. If I don't ask, I don't need their help.

So if I am working with you, and I call an oob and you come running down to me making a big show of helping me out, I will simply say "thank you", change the call to what you wanted it to be, and then do my best to never work with you again.

If I am working with you and I make an oob call and people start going nuts, I will think "hmmm, did I miss something here?" and then I will yell "Partner, you got something for me?". And then I will change my call or not based on the info you give me.

If I am working with you and you make an oob call and I have info you might want, I will hold my spot and stand there and smile at you stupidly. If you shake your head at me, away I go...if you want my information, you will ask me "Partner, you got something for me?"

Nice and simple...

Like whoa, there's that sensitivity I was talking about!!

First of all, my "getting the play right" comment was in regards to having info & not providing it. Holding my spot & smiling at you stupidly is STUPID & doesnt do the game any justice whatsoever IMO.

If I'm the coach who the IC went against & I see you standing there smiling, I want to know what you think is so funny! I'll probably get whacked, but I will show the play to your supervisor & see what he thinks about it & you smiling while not helping your partner.

We'll have to agree to disagree about your thought process on help & no I dont want to battle you. There are too many potholes in my game, my CC % couldn't be in your ballpark. Im not that good...

Originally Posted by JRutledge

it is typical for a partner on a close out of bounds call where they see the entire play to come to the calling official and give them information. As long as he gave you information and you changed the call based on that information, not sure what is the problem.

Perhaps rockyroad was his partner :-)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

If I am working with you and I make an oob call and people start going nuts, I will think "hmmm, did I miss something here?" and then I will yell "Partner, you got something for me?". And then I will change my call or not based on the info you give me.

If I screw the pooch on an out of bounds call, and my partner has any information that can help us to get the call right, I want him to offer unsolicited help, and not just if the crowd moans. We're a team, and the crowd isn't part of our team. They don't know the secret handshake.