Discussing a call with your partner

[JWP]

I saw this discussed briefly the other day, and just wanted some other thoughts on the subject.

I'm lead (and in a small gym with only a couple of feet between end line and wall). Shot goes up, rebounders go up, the ball pinballs very quickly off three or four arms and hands and goes out of bounds, whistling past my head, forcing me to duck. I make the call. "White ball." I am pretty sure I got it right, but there were a lot of things going on, including trying to protect my movie-star good looks.

My partner comes up and quietly says he is sure it went off white. I ask him, "100 percent?" and he says Yes. Good enough for me. I signal red ball, partner explains it to the white coach that he had a great angle, and game goes on no problem.

I didn't have a problem with my partner stepping in, although other officials have said my partner was out of line. What do you think?

[Bad Zebra]

This is a critical pre-game conversation topic. When I am the R, my conversation goes something like: "If you are 100% sure an OOB call is wrong, approach your partner and give him the info. Then, allow him to decide what to do with it". When I am the R, I encourage my partners get it right, as opposed to worrying about how it looks. In other words, change your call.

To me, it's a lot easier explaining to a coach that a partner had the better look and saw it definitively than living with a bad call for the sake of ego or appearance. I think your partner and you did the right thing.

My guess is that the other officials that said your partner was out of line are the ones that worry more about how they look than getting it right. I've worked with those guys in the past and at this point in my career, I try to avoid them. That attitude is generally insecurity on their part.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

My guess is that the other officials that said your partner was out of line are the ones that worry more about how they look than getting it right. I've worked with those guys in the past and at this point in my career, I try to avoid them. That attitude is generally insecurity on their part.

Not nearly enough information to make this sort of judgment, IMO.

Originally Posted by tomegun

Billy, I like all of that except blowing the whistle. If not absolutely necessary, I would leave that part off, but that is just me.

I like the straight forward approach:
Only come to me if you are 100% sure and it is something I obviously missed
Give clear information - "The ball went off white"
I will change it.

Agreed.

[Raymond]

I wouldn't say he was out-of-line. But personally I don't give help on bang-bang plays in front of my partner. For me it has to be something he clearly could not have seen or that he clearly missed. But that's just me.

[DRJ1960]

My group goes with the 100% rule. If you come to me, you are absolutely certain.

[BLydic]

Around here, your partner executed the pregame perfectly. Coming in, offering what he/she saw on the play and allowing you to change the call. Out of line would be coming in blowing whistle, pointing the other way, loudly proclaiming who the ball went off of, etc. Basically over-ruling your call without the discussion.

[ref3808]

I ALWAYS pregame this with my partner. If s/he approaches me I know right away that they are certain about their information and I can't think of a time I didn't use it.

I think most coaches appreciate seeing officials working together to make the correct call.

[BillyMac]

For out-of-bounds help, let's get it right. If I have no idea and I look to you for help, just give a directional signal.
No need to come to me, just point. If you don't know, give me a jump ball signal. If I signal but I get it wrong then
blow the whistle and come to me. Tell me what you saw and let me decide if I’m going to change it.

[tomegun]

Billy, I like all of that except blowing the whistle. If not absolutely necessary, I would leave that part off, but that is just me.

I like the straight forward approach:
Only come to me if you are 100% sure and it is something I obviously missed
Give clear information - "The ball went off white"
I will change it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JWP

I didn't have a problem with my partner stepping in, although other officials have said my partner was out of line. What do you think?

As a general rule this should always be a pre-game item. But during the summer or off-season ball that is not always possible.

What you describe sounds pretty basic stuff unless your partner signaled without consultation. But it is typical for a partner on a close out of bounds call where they see the entire play to come to the calling official and give them information. As long as he gave you information and you changed the call based on that information, not sure what is the problem.

Peace

[KMBReferee]

I'm not going to confirm his call (are you 100% sure?). If I ask him for the call, or he steps in and takes the call from me, then I'm going with what he has.

But from that point on, he owns that call. So if a coach questions me about it, I'm telling the coach, "You need to talk to him about it; not me." Particularly if he steps in to correct my call and I saw it clearly. I'm not going to argue with him about it; he needs to deal with the consequences.

That's why I rarely step in to correct a partner's call, unless it's very evident to me and virtually everyone in that building. And that's generally an OOB play that had no chance of being touched by anyone but the team he gave the ball to.