Coaching box restriction after a T

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

...I also had an incident during the regular season where the coach being seated probably interfered with my ability to hear them request a timeout and it lead to other conflict. That would have never happened in my opinion if the coach was standing.
...

That's the coach's fault for not knowing he is allowed to stand to request a time-out.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

That's the coach's fault for not knowing he is allowed to stand to request a time-out.

I totally agree. And he did not project his voice and assumed I would hear him. But if we get rid of this rule I think we have little to worry about in these situations. Then again my suggestion was to avoid having to babysit the rule.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

That's the coach's fault for not knowing he is allowed to stand to request a time-out.

Most coaches, and a few officials, don't realize that there are several circumstances under which a coach, who has been "seatbelted", may legally stand:

1) To request a timeout, or signal his players to request a timeout.

2) To confer with personnel at the scorer’s table to request a timeout that a correctable error, or a timing, scoring, or alternating possession mistake be prevented, or rectified.

2) To replace or remove a disqualified or injured player, or player directed to leave the game.

3) During a charged timeout, or the intermission between quarters, and extra periods.

4) To spontaneously react to an outstanding play by a team member or to acknowledge a replaced player.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Actually, in many cases, we officiate what the rule should be instead of what is written until they change it to a more appealing form. Three examples come to mind....

1. Leaving the court w/o permission. In the past, every one knew exactly what constituted leaving the court and the penalty was a T. 99% of the time, officials refused to call it because the penalty of a T was too harsh. We didn't actually call it as a violation like it was eventually changed to but we didn't call the rule as written. Eventually, because no one ever called it, they changed it to a violation and now it gets called. It doesn't happen more, it is just a fair penalty for the infraction.

2. Faking a foul. While some may claim otherwise as a justification to not call it, everyone knows a fake foul when they see it. Yet, we don't call it a T. Why? Too harsh of a penalty for the situation. We call it different than the book says because we don't like the book's penalty. If they were to change the penalty somehow, I bet it would get called.

3. Multiple fouls. I know of several instances where I "could" have called a multiple foul...times where two players contacted an opponent such that each contact alone was clearly and indisputably more than worthy of a foul (and the ball remained live due to it being a shooter). Yet, we pick one. We don't like the option of a multiple foul. We don't call it the way the rules are, but the way it is preferred.

4. Delayed return to the court. Especially, after a throw-in. Penalty is a T. If it became a violation like #1, it would get called, and the practice would discontinue.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

4. Delayed return to the court. Especially, after a throw-in. Penalty is a T. If it became a violation like #1, it would get called, and the practice would discontinue.

Agree. Good point.

[actuary77]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

1. Leaving the court w/o permission. In the past, every one knew exactly what constituted leaving the court and the penalty was a T. 99% of the time, officials refused to call it because the penalty of a T was too harsh. We didn't actually call it as a violation like it was eventually changed to but we didn't call the rule as written. Eventually, because no one ever called it, they changed it to a violation and now it gets called. It doesn't happen more, it is just a fair penalty for the infraction.

I believe running OOB under the basket to get around defenders also falls under the rule above and is illegal in high school, but yet I very seldom see it get called. I'm among the guilty here since in my 8 years of HS officiating, I've only called this once and both the player and coach had no clue what I was calling. I tried my best to explain to the coach that this is a violation, but he wasn't buying it.

This past season, in a Boys Soph game, I had the same player do it maybe 3 times during the first half. I passed on all of them. During half time, I discussed with the coach that this is illegal, he didn't challenge me, and I asked him to tell his player not to do it again. Never happened again in the 2nd half. I'm sure some will frown at how I handled this situation. I might add that in all instances where the player violated, there was no significant advantage gained imho.

Not sure about NCAA, but I think it's legal in the NBA since it happens all the time.

[APG]

Originally Posted by actuary77

I believe running OOB under the basket to get around defenders also falls under the rule above and is illegal in high school, but yet I very seldom see it get called. I'm among the guilty here since in my 8 years of HS officiating, I've only called this once and both the player and coach had no clue what I was calling. I tried my best to explain to the coach that this is a violation, but he wasn't buying it.

This past season, in a Boys Soph game, I had the same player do it maybe 3 times during the first half. I passed on all of them. During half time, I discussed with the coach that this is illegal, he didn't challenge me, and I asked him to tell his player not to do it again. Never happened again in the 2nd half. I'm sure some will frown at how I handled this situation. I might add that in all instances where the player violated, there was no significant advantage gained imho.

Not sure about NCAA, but I think it's legal in the NBA since it happens all the time.

The only thing that is illegal under NBA rules is for an offensive player leaving the court on the endline, for the purpose of setting a screen, in one's frontcourt. It's a violation and the ball is awarded to the defense at the free throw line extended.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Interesting...around here we work many doubleheaders (jv and then v). Twice this past season in jv games a coach was whacked for unsporting conduct (very much deserved) and then later tossed because they were standing up yelling at a player. Neither coach was saying anything to us, was simply hollering out at a player, was issued the 2nd T for not remaining seated, and was tossed.

By rule, the officials were correct. Even standing to yell at a player is a violation of the bench rule in this case. Not that I have ever gone after this when the coach is only talking to his players (assuming he promptly sits down.)

That said, I like it the way it is. It's just a little extra incentive for a HC to keep control of his bench. Would 2 FTs alone be enough? I don't know, but as MTD noted, HS coaches (especially below the V level) have a greater chance to be tools than college coaches.

The lower level you get, the more incentive they need.

[actuary77]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

The only thing that is illegal under NBA rules is for an offensive player leaving the court on the endline, for the purpose of setting a screen, in one's frontcourt. It's a violation and the ball is awarded to the defense at the free throw line extended.

So it's illegal to set a screen OOB outside the endline but it's legal to go OOB to get around a screen established inbounds?

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by actuary77

Not sure about NCAA, but I think it's legal in the NBA since it happens all the time.

Here's the NCAA Rule (9-4-1)

A player who steps out of bounds under his/her own volition and then becomes the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court has committed a violation.

The exception is if you go out of bounds to receive a pass before the ball is inbounded after a made/awarded FG or FT. If your teammate doesn't pass you the ball you're allowed to go back inbounds and be the first player to touch it.

[APG]

Originally Posted by actuary77

So it's illegal to set a screen OOB outside the endline but it's legal to go OOB to get around a screen established inbounds?

That would be correct.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

The only thing that is illegal under NBA rules is for an offensive player leaving the court on the endline, for the purpose of setting a screen, in one's frontcourt. It's a violation and the ball is awarded to the defense at the free throw line extended.

Is this strictly an NBA rule? I believe no player can go out of bounds like that in NFHS, though there's not much point calling it if a defensive player does it (unless, maybe, the ball is loose).

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Is this strictly an NBA rule? I believe no player can go out of bounds like that in NFHS, though there's not much point calling it if a defensive player does it (unless, maybe, the ball is loose).

Yes, that should be obvious.

Peace