Video: end of game

[tomegun]

This is the video from the end of the Nevada 4A girl's championship.

1. Notice the C's position when the ball hits him.
2. Was the girl in the act of shooting when the foul was called?
3. Why was there such a long conversation and what could the C have added?

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[Freddy]

No bites yet, so I'll take a shot . . .
1. Notice the C's position when the ball hits him.
A little deep, perhaps? There were a lot of bodies between him and the play on which a foul was called, but that wasn't his primary anyway. Not sure why he had so much input in the conference that followed, unless he was the R and he was asking his two partners what they each had.
2. Was the girl in the act of shooting when the foul was called?
The blocking foul was called on the attempted drive by the player who then, after the foul, continued for a try. The shooter, therefore, had not yet begun "the motion which habitually precedes the release of the ball" on an attempt. At first, I thought the T had a different call, but after review it looks like she was getting the player who would go to the line.
3. Why was there such a long conversation and what could the C have added?
Either he was fixated outside his primary and he was telling his partners what to call (the L already had it), or he was the R sorting out what his two partners had.

Am I close?

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Am I close?

I just posted the play for learning purposes. The C gets hit with the ball because he is way too far on the court.

The foul, and possible continuous motion, was the one where the official called it a shooting foul. What is questionable, and virtually impossible to tell from the film, is whether it should have been in the act of shooting. The reason it is even a point of discussion is high school and college officials call far too many fouls on the ground when they should be in the act of shooting. The rules regarding continuous motion for the NBA, NCAA and NFHS are virtually the same so they should be called the same.

The conference was too long, in my opinion, for a foul at this point in the game. It looks like there is a lot of doubt about what is going on. Also, I have no idea what the C would have to offer; when I see him I'm going to find a gentle way to ask him.

[zm1283]

Sorry, but I'll come out and say it: They look confused and not very sure of themselves.

1. Notice the C's position when the ball hits him.

Why was he so close to the lane? Step down if anything, but don't close in on the play unless you have a held ball or foul.

2. Was the girl in the act of shooting when the foul was called?

No. He got this part right.

3. Why was there such a long conversation and what could the C have added?

Your guess is as good as mine. I'm not sure why the C came in like that. Officiate the dead ball period and help the old Trail get the shooter while the L reports the foul. That part made them look bad IMO.

On an unrelated note, is it common for coaches there to wear sweatpants and long sleeve t-shirts for state championship games like the white team's HC?

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by zm1283

Sorry, but I'll come out and say it: They look confused and not very sure of themselves.

1. Notice the C's position when the ball hits him.

Why was he so close to the lane? Step down if anything, but don't close in on the play unless you have a held ball or foul.

2. Was the girl in the act of shooting when the foul was called?

No. He got this part right.

3. Why was there such a long conversation and what could the C have added?

Your guess is as good as mine. I'm not sure why the C came in like that. Officiate the dead ball period and help the old Trail get the shooter while the L reports the foul. That part made them look bad IMO.

On an unrelated note, is it common for coaches there to wear sweatpants and long sleeve t-shirts for state championship games like the white team's HC?

I'm not sure about the attire. The Mississippi Boy's state champion coach wore a white suit to the game.

I have to ask, why do you say step down at the C? Without looking at the play, I'm not sure if that is the correct way to get an open look; actually stepping up will help many times when the ball is headed toward the hoop. I know one school of thought is to step down all the time, but that will keep a "stacked" point of view many times.

My guess is the C had an imaginary ring in his nose with an imaginary rope attached to it and the ball. In other words, he was ball watching big time, wanted a closer look and got caught up. Sadly, the fact that the ball hit him could have decided the state championship. Or should I say it could have been a huge factor in the outcome.

[Back In The Saddle]

0. No mention of the shooter going to the floor on the drive at the beginning of the video? Looks like she was dragged down from behind on a lay up. Not sure what the C was looking at. The L is watching the ball.

1. No opinion.

2. The girl they put on the line was clearly not in the act of shooting.

3. I can't see any good reason for them to pow wow. I also can't see why the T closed on this.

[Lcubed48]

Originally Posted by tomegun

1. Notice the C's position when the ball hits him.
2. Was the girl in the act of shooting when the foul was called?
3. Why was there such a long conversation and what could the C have added?

1. He's out of position for sure (& very possibly ball watching). His thought could have been to move closer to the action since it was all on the other side of the court. He went too far.
2. That's a judgement call where we earn the big bucks. But, I don't believe so.
3. I have no clue. I don't know what the C could have added. Once the C joins the confab, who's watching the players? The L and the T seemed to have the situation and the call under control.
That's why it's good to watch ourselves on video and to learn and improve.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by zm1283

Is it common for coaches there to wear sweatpants and long sleeve t-shirts for state championship games like the white team's HC?

Here in the Constitution State, it's not common, but it's not rare either. We have some "big time" schools who make it to the state finals almost every year, whose coaches wear sweat suits. It looks like they're coaching at practice, not at a game, but they don't get paid to be a "fashion model". They get paid to win games, for their players to show good sportsmanship on the court, and for their players to graduate, and possibly move on to the next level. It used to bother me, now I realize that there are much more important things about being a good coach than about being a "fashion model". Just my evolving opinion.

[JugglingReferee]

Non-shooting foul.

But could the 2 shots been for the automatic bonus situation?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by tomegun

The reason it is even a point of discussion is high school and college officials call far too many fouls on the ground when they should be in the act of shooting.

tomegun: Be careful with your wording. Most of us veterans know what you mean, but many rookie officials, coaches, players, and fans, might not. You can be in the act of shooting with both feet on the ground. In our local area, we've been discouraged from using such verbiage in describing whether, or not, a player was in the act of shooting.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

tomegun: Be careful with your wording. Most of us veterans know what you mean, but many rookie officials, coaches, players, and fans, might not. You can be in the act of shooting with both feet on the ground. In our local area, we've been discouraged from using such verbiage in describing whether, or not, a player was in the act of shooting.

I actually said it on purpose because many officials do call it on the ground/floor. You make a good point though because that is exactly the problem.

For those of you who say the girl was not in the act of shooting, can you explain why? I'm not so sure either way because the shot was awkward. The question I have is was she gathering the ball. From the camera angle, I can't tell for sure, but I think it is very close.

[Indianaref]

Notice the L signal no shot right after the foul. Could the C have come in to discuss a timing issue? Thumbs down on the sweats!

[bbcof83]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

0. No mention of the shooter going to the floor on the drive at the beginning of the video? Looks like she was dragged down from behind on a lay up. Not sure what the C was looking at. The L is watching the ball.

1. No opinion.

2. The girl they put on the line was clearly not in the act of shooting.

3. I can't see any good reason for them to pow wow. I also can't see why the T closed on this.

0. Looks like the shooter was perhaps trying to sell a foul and just plopped on the ground. From the video's angle (same as C, opposite of L) whatever minimal contact there was it did not effect her rhythm. Good job of C and L to pass on it, especially with less than 10 seconds in a one point championship game.

2. Double bonus?

3. As for the T closing, agreed. She should close a little just to be on top of the tense situation but she is only adding to the confusion by pointing to the white player on the ground. It looks like she is perhaps identifying the shooter. Unfortunately, to the fan/coach/observer it almost looks as if she is pointing to white as if she is calling a foul on white. Another miscue that adds to the confusion of the situation.

[Fathertime]

A couple other things that bothered me that haven't been mentioned.

C looked like he was way too antsy down the stretch of this game and he did not trust his partners. The ball watching on the play put him in the way of the game and took him out of position. His running in toward the conference, and doing most of the talking, left the players unwatched and made him screw up the switch for free throw administration. He should have been lead for this (assuming there isn't a NV exception). Then he came into the lane between tries to move a player down when the lead could easily have taken care of that. Looked way too excited.

L crept on the court during the rebounding and confusingly waved off the basket with one arm while the other was still in the air. Not sure why he came all the way to the table after a correct call. It was a 5th foul, but there is still no reason to allow the coach to walk to mid-court and have a conversation that doesn't involve the other coach.

I'm guessing T had a double whistle, but should have passed the call to L and ended up making a confusing extended point to the shooter. Maybe she wasn't sure what L had because of a weak preliminary signal.

I'm not sure any of the three were completely under control during this crunch time.

This is a great example of getting the call right, and still looking bad doing it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tomegun

This is the video from the end of the Nevada 4A girl's championship.

1. Notice the C's position when the ball hits him.
2. Was the girl in the act of shooting when the foul was called?
3. Why was there such a long conversation and what could the C have added?

1. That happens. Not often but it happens.

2. No, not at all.

3. I think time might have been the discussion. That is the only thing I can come up with.

Peace