Coaching box restriction after a T

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by actuary77

Fascinating discussion here. I like what JRutledge started here. Instead of officiating based on what we think the rule should be, we officiate on how the rule is currently written and lobby for rule changes. Speaking of lobbying, is there a process (or a lobbyist) for the officiating community to the NFHS Basketball Board to propose rule changes like these? Imho, the perspective of those of us who apply the rules to the game (and actually read the rule book every year) is important and needs to be on the table.

Actually, in many cases, we officiate what the rule should be instead of what is written until they change it to a more appealing form. Three examples come to mind....

1. Leaving the court w/o permission. In the past, every one knew exactly what constituted leaving the court and the penalty was a T. 99% of the time, officials refused to call it because the penalty of a T was too harsh. We didn't actually call it as a violation like it was eventually changed to but we didn't call the rule as written. Eventually, because no one ever called it, they changed it to a violation and now it gets called. It doesn't happen more, it is just a fair penalty for the infraction.

2. Faking a foul. While some may claim otherwise as a justification to not call it, everyone knows a fake foul when they see it. Yet, we don't call it a T. Why? Too harsh of a penalty for the situation. We call it different than the book says because we don't like the book's penalty. If they were to change the penalty somehow, I bet it would get called.

3. Multiple fouls. I know of several instances where I "could" have called a multiple foul...times where two players contacted an opponent such that each contact alone was clearly and indisputably more than worthy of a foul (and the ball remained live due to it being a shooter). Yet, we pick one. We don't like the option of a multiple foul. We don't call it the way the rules are, but the way it is preferred.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Actually, in many cases, we officiate what the rule should be instead of what is written until they change it to a more appealing form. Three examples come to mind....

1. Leaving the court w/o permission. In the past, every one knew exactly what constituted leaving the court and the penalty was a T. 99% of the time, officials refused to call it because the penalty of a T was too harsh. We didn't actually call it as a violation like it was eventually changed to but we didn't call the rule as written. Eventually, because no one ever called it, they changed it to a violation and now it gets called. It doesn't happen more, it is just a fair penalty for the infraction.

2. Faking a foul. While some may claim otherwise as a justification to not call it, everyone knows a fake foul when they see it. Yet, we don't call it a T. Why? Too harsh of a penalty for the situation. We call it different than the book says because we don't like the book's penalty. If they were to change the penalty somehow, I bet it would get called.

3. Multiple fouls. I know of several instances where I "could" have called a multiple foul...times where two players contacted an opponent such that each contact alone was clearly and indisputably more than worthy of a foul (and the ball remained live due to it being a shooter). Yet, we pick one. We don't like the option of a multiple foul. We don't call it the way the rules are, but the way it is preferred.

4. Delayed return to the court. Especially, after a throw-in. Penalty is a T. If it became a violation like #1, it would get called, and the practice would discontinue.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

4. Delayed return to the court. Especially, after a throw-in. Penalty is a T. If it became a violation like #1, it would get called, and the practice would discontinue.

Agree. Good point.

[actuary77]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

1. Leaving the court w/o permission. In the past, every one knew exactly what constituted leaving the court and the penalty was a T. 99% of the time, officials refused to call it because the penalty of a T was too harsh. We didn't actually call it as a violation like it was eventually changed to but we didn't call the rule as written. Eventually, because no one ever called it, they changed it to a violation and now it gets called. It doesn't happen more, it is just a fair penalty for the infraction.

I believe running OOB under the basket to get around defenders also falls under the rule above and is illegal in high school, but yet I very seldom see it get called. I'm among the guilty here since in my 8 years of HS officiating, I've only called this once and both the player and coach had no clue what I was calling. I tried my best to explain to the coach that this is a violation, but he wasn't buying it.

This past season, in a Boys Soph game, I had the same player do it maybe 3 times during the first half. I passed on all of them. During half time, I discussed with the coach that this is illegal, he didn't challenge me, and I asked him to tell his player not to do it again. Never happened again in the 2nd half. I'm sure some will frown at how I handled this situation. I might add that in all instances where the player violated, there was no significant advantage gained imho.

Not sure about NCAA, but I think it's legal in the NBA since it happens all the time.

[APG]

Originally Posted by actuary77

I believe running OOB under the basket to get around defenders also falls under the rule above and is illegal in high school, but yet I very seldom see it get called. I'm among the guilty here since in my 8 years of HS officiating, I've only called this once and both the player and coach had no clue what I was calling. I tried my best to explain to the coach that this is a violation, but he wasn't buying it.

This past season, in a Boys Soph game, I had the same player do it maybe 3 times during the first half. I passed on all of them. During half time, I discussed with the coach that this is illegal, he didn't challenge me, and I asked him to tell his player not to do it again. Never happened again in the 2nd half. I'm sure some will frown at how I handled this situation. I might add that in all instances where the player violated, there was no significant advantage gained imho.

Not sure about NCAA, but I think it's legal in the NBA since it happens all the time.

The only thing that is illegal under NBA rules is for an offensive player leaving the court on the endline, for the purpose of setting a screen, in one's frontcourt. It's a violation and the ball is awarded to the defense at the free throw line extended.

[actuary77]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

The only thing that is illegal under NBA rules is for an offensive player leaving the court on the endline, for the purpose of setting a screen, in one's frontcourt. It's a violation and the ball is awarded to the defense at the free throw line extended.

So it's illegal to set a screen OOB outside the endline but it's legal to go OOB to get around a screen established inbounds?

[APG]

Originally Posted by actuary77

So it's illegal to set a screen OOB outside the endline but it's legal to go OOB to get around a screen established inbounds?

That would be correct.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

The only thing that is illegal under NBA rules is for an offensive player leaving the court on the endline, for the purpose of setting a screen, in one's frontcourt. It's a violation and the ball is awarded to the defense at the free throw line extended.

Is this strictly an NBA rule? I believe no player can go out of bounds like that in NFHS, though there's not much point calling it if a defensive player does it (unless, maybe, the ball is loose).

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Is this strictly an NBA rule? I believe no player can go out of bounds like that in NFHS, though there's not much point calling it if a defensive player does it (unless, maybe, the ball is loose).

Yes, that should be obvious.

Peace

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by actuary77

Not sure about NCAA, but I think it's legal in the NBA since it happens all the time.

Here's the NCAA Rule (9-4-1)

A player who steps out of bounds under his/her own volition and then becomes the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court has committed a violation.

The exception is if you go out of bounds to receive a pass before the ball is inbounded after a made/awarded FG or FT. If your teammate doesn't pass you the ball you're allowed to go back inbounds and be the first player to touch it.