John Adams and Block Charge plays.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by GROUPthink

I've been saying this for years.

The first 15 years I worked basketball, there were too many blocks being called and the message got out that we were punishing good defense. Then it swung way too much in the opposite direction -- charges became the default call even when the elements of drawing a charge weren't all there. Anything close got shipped the other way.

GROUPthink:

I am a dinosaur in the world of basketball officiating but one of my personal friends was the late Ed Ferrigno of Conneticut who was the Rules Interpreter for Connecticut and was considered the one of the foremost expert on Guarding and Screening. And I can assure you that we still do NOT call enough Charges.

MTD, Sr.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

GROUPthink:

I am a dinosaur in the world of basketball officiating but one of my personal friends was the late Ed Ferrigno of Conneticut who was the Rules Interpreter for Connecticut and was considered the one of the foremost expert on Guarding and Screening. And I can assure you that we still do NOT call enough Charges.

MTD, Sr.

I try to watch as much film as possible and there are a lot of called charges, even at the HS level, that simply aren't. I think many officials aren't refereeing the defense well enough and aren't looking for (1) establishing and (2) maintaining LGP. If it's in the torso and the defender goes down, it's shipped. And that's not always right.

I'm not a dinosaur, but 25 years of working at the HS/college levels doesn't make me a spring chicken, either. No namedropping from me, though.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I am a dinosaur in the world of basketball officiating.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Billy:

I love it!

MTD, Sr.

[twocentsworth]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

GROUPthink:

... And I can assure you that we still do NOT call enough Charges.

MTD, Sr.

MTD, Sr. is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT....we do NOT call enough charges. The lower the level, the worse the problem.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

MTD, Sr. is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT....we do NOT call enough charges. The lower the level, the worse the problem.

TwoCents:

The check is in the mail.

MTD, Sr.

[twocentsworth]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

TwoCents:

The check is in the mail.


MTD, Sr.

please make sure my check has a "comma" in the dollar amount...:-)

[canuckrefguy]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

MTD, Sr. is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT....we do NOT call enough charges. The lower the level, the worse the problem.

Disagree. What I generally see from rookies is too many charges - caused by not watching the defense.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by canuckrefguy

Disagree. What I generally see from rookies is too many charges - caused by not watching the defense.

Interesting, because I hardly ever see a newer official call a PC foul at all. I think officials in general call too many things on the defense when they do not do anything wrong.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Interesting, because I hardly ever see a newer official call a PC foul at all. I think officials in general call too many things on the defense when they do not do anything wrong.

Peace

I think the bigger problem is that they call it one way or the other but what they use as reasoning is not per the rules. I know I still miss block/charge calls but at least I know why I went with the call initially.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I think the bigger problem is that they call it one way or the other but what they use as reasoning is not per the rules. I know I still miss block/charge calls but at least I know why I went with the call initially.

That is a bigger issue than there are too many called. Now if you say that there are incorrect calls OK. But the number should not matter because it is possible that the number could be the teams and players understanding the rule and doing what it takes to get a call. What if for some reason that is the case and the numbers do not change? Is the rules committee going to complain or change the rule then?

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

That is a bigger issue than there are too many called. Now if you say that there are incorrect calls OK. But the number should not matter because it is possible that the number could be the teams and players understanding the rule and doing what it takes to get a call. What if for some reason that is the case and the numbers do not change? Is the rules committee going to complain or change the rule then?

Peace

More times than not when I've heard complaints of about charges being called, the call was actually correct.

I think the biggest gripe, even if it is not the stated gripe, with the whole issue is that defenders are increasingly successful at playing for the charge rather than playing to stop the ball and possibly getting a charge. Such an approach....playing for the foul rather than playing the ball....is distasteful to some.

For a long time, many officials, who often incorrectly defaulted to a block unless the offensive player brought a battering ram to the party, were somewhat complicit in satisfying fans' desire to not see "cheap" fouls. Now that officials have started calling the charges that are, by rule, there, people are not happy.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Interesting, because I hardly ever see a newer official call a PC foul at all. I think officials in general call too many things on the defense when they do not do anything wrong.

Peace

Agreed, combined with taking away too many shots on defensive fouls and calling a foul every time a defender so much as touches a shooter, it's in the top three of rookie mistakes I see.

[twocentsworth]

Originally Posted by canuckrefguy

Disagree. What I generally see from rookies is too many charges - caused by not watching the defense.

when an official does not watch the defense, he is surprised/caught off-guard when the contact happens. as a result, the vast majority of times a block is called becuase that is what officials "default" to when making calls.

maybe the metric systems' conversion formula in Canada causes more charges to be called up there.....but below the 48th parallel in North America, officials call WAAAAAAAAYYYYY too many blocking fouls.

(btw, officials also wave off too many good baskets when a shooter is fouled because they don't understand when the act of shooting begins. that's for another thread, however.)