More thoughts from John Adams

[Scrapper1]

A few days ago, I got an email from my D3 association containing some thoughts from John Adams, NCAA Coordinator of Officials. I posted it here: Blarge Alert

I don't know how (probably through my eOfficials.com account), but I somehow got subscribed to an email newsletter from Ref60.com. In any case, they posted a brief interview with John Adams and so I thought I'd share it. There's no registration required to listen:

John Adams on Transitioning to College Ball

There were a couple of comments that really raised my eyebrows, but I won't post them yet. I'd like to hear everybody's thoughts, though.

[stripes]

Only thing that stood out to me was the comment about watching the players and they will tell you if you got the play right.

My experience is that this is true to a degree. The kid who commits a fouls rarely thinks he fouled them...some plays, however, I have made a call that I thought was iffy and players have gone right along with it like it was no big deal...must have gotten it right.

Overall, I think Mr. Adam's comments are in line with what I have experienced.

[BillyMac]

"Our obligations to our country never cease but with our lives".

Loved the HBO miniseries.

[Larks]

I thought the contrast between HS and college coaches was interesting.

[ajs8207]

Is congratulating players on a good play something you personally do? I never have I've always assumed it to be out of line. Maybe I'm wrong...

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by ajs8207

Is congratulating players on a good play something you personally do? I never have I've always assumed it to be out of line. Maybe I'm wrong...

I always congratulate 3rd graders after a successful dunk.

[zeedonk]

I just listened to the interview also. Many things ran through my mind, including the coach comment. Knowing that I have many, many, many plays to see before even thinking about moving past HS level, I nevertheless would like to keep my eye on that possibility...

Anyway, the other thing that struck me was the comment about the level of play (not the speed of the game, which I was not surprised to hear) at even the D3 level (not to disparage any level of play)... I have heard some of our varsity/college guys talk in terms of considering whether or not they'd like a college D3 game in a gym with 20 people or a good HS varsity game with 1500 people.

What do we think about that comment?

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by stripes

Only thing that stood out to me was the comment about watching the players and they will tell you if you got the play right.

This was one of the things that raised my eyebrows. This sounds, frankly, like a coach's perspective, not an official's perspective. I think that in the vast majority of cases, the players have no idea if you got the play right. Players and coaches almost always look astonished that you could have possibly called a foul on that play. There are, of course, obvious plays where everybody in the gym knows that there was a foul; but in those cases, why would we need to check to see if we got it right?

The other thing that I thought was a little off the mark was the comment that "anticipation" is helpful in high school, but not in college. His thinking seems to be that because the players are more skilled and athletic, they can do things that aren't seen in most high school games; so you can't (or shouldn't) anticipate what might happen. But this seems to show a misunderstanding of what we're anticipating. We're not anticipating that we're going to call a foul on the defender and then -- OOPS! -- he actually got to the spot first and it should've been a charge. We're anticipating that we're about to have a one-on-one drive with a possible crash, so we locate the defender. Anticipate the PLAY, not the CALL. I think that's just as valid at the college level as in high school.

Anybody think I'm way off-base?

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

This was one of the things that raised my eyebrows. This sounds, frankly, like a coach's perspective, not an official's perspective. I think that in the vast majority of cases, the players have no idea if you got the play right. Players and coaches almost always look astonished that you could have possibly called a foul on that play. There are, of course, obvious plays where everybody in the gym knows that there was a foul; but in those cases, why would we need to check to see if we got it right?

I think I understand what he's saying, and I agree with it. Have you ever had a ball go OOB in front of you, and you're not initially sure whose ball it should be, and before you ask for help you see all the players start walking to other end of the floor? They know whose ball it is. And there really is a subtle difference in player reactions when they really are astonished/confused at the call, as opposed to the "I've gotta look amazed so coach doesn't chew my a$$ for that stupid foul". You've probably also seen that look when you blow the whistle for the foul when there are two defenders there - one of them will give you the truly amazed look, then relax after you tell them the call was actually against their teammate.

It's not a 100% accurate barometer, and it doesn't happen every game, but there really are instances where a player can indicate whether or not you got the call right or wrong.

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Have you ever had a ball go OOB in front of you, and you're not initially sure whose ball it should be, and before you ask for help you see all the players start walking to other end of the floor? They know whose ball it is...

It's not a 100% accurate barometer, and it doesn't happen every game, but there really are instances where a player can indicate whether or not you got the call right or wrong.

Concur, that's what I interpreted that statement to mean as well.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

I think I understand what he's saying, and I agree with it. Have you ever had a ball go OOB in front of you, and you're not initially sure whose ball it should be, and before you ask for help you see all the players start walking to other end of the floor?

Yes, but I've also seen players that automatically point in their own direction on
every out of bounds call, and then say good call when I point the other way.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

The other thing that I thought was a little off the mark was the comment that "anticipation" is helpful in high school, but not in college. His thinking seems to be that because the players are more skilled and athletic, they can do things that aren't seen in most high school games; so you can't (or shouldn't) anticipate what might happen. But this seems to show a misunderstanding of what we're anticipating. We're not anticipating that we're going to call a foul on the defender and then -- OOPS! -- he actually got to the spot first and it should've been a charge. We're anticipating that we're about to have a one-on-one drive with a possible crash, so we locate the defender. Anticipate the PLAY, not the CALL. I think that's just as valid at the college level as in high school.

Anybody think I'm way off-base?

I think what he is saying is that a play we anticipate in high school is not the same play we can anticipate in a college game. In HS that play may only have 1 or 2 possible outcomes that we look for but in college the athletism of the players allows for 4 or 5 possible outcomes. That's my interpretation of his statement.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Yes, but I've also seen players that automatically point in their own direction on
every out of bounds call, and then say good call when I point the other way.

Of course, they are the same players that think they never foul either, but you learn to tell the difference. On the OOB call, I've made what I thought was the right call while the players are walking the other way, and I'm grateful when I see my partner coming up to tell me I missed a tip. It's kind of hard to ignore when all the players disagree with my initial assessment, not just a single player.

If you work this game long enough, you can see subtle differences in reactions and behavior between players that "want" a call, and players that truly know when you've missed one. I'm going to go out on a limb and say you can sometimes even tell from a crowd reaction that a call was missed. Of course, I don't normally listen to crowds and players, but sometimes there is a different tone and reaction than the normal displeasure. Like I said, it doesn't happen every game, but after a while you can tell a difference.

[bob jenkins]

1) The tape was more than 60-seconds. They should call it "3:30 on officiating"

2) I don't think John was saying "use the players to help you make the call" as much as he was saying "use the players to help you evaluate your officiating and what you need to work on."

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

1) The tape was more than 60-seconds. They should call it "3:30 on officiating"

I wonder if John was using his 10-second backcourt count to count out the length of the tape?

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

2) I don't think John was saying "use the players to help you make the call" as much as he was saying "use the players to help you evaluate your officiating and what you need to work on."

Agreed.