NF 4-44-5 Traveling

[Rob1968]

During a scramble for a loose ball, A1 gets possession of the ball, while on both knees. With no defensive pressure, A1 moves one leg from from having the knee on the floor to a foot. There is no apparent "...attempt to get up or stand." -- NF 4-44-5 b. A1 then passes the ball to a A2 and play continues.
Coach B protests that the knee to foot movement is traveling.
Is there any written statement that changing the position of one leg from knee contact with the floor to foot contact, constitutes an "attempt to get up or stand" and thus a traveling violation?

[tref]

Judgment call

[Camron Rust]

Traveling. Going from a knee to a foot IS part of an attempt to get up. You could break the "get up" in to many small pieces and they'd still be part of getting up.

The only movement allowed in an "updward" manner is sitting up if they are on their back.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Traveling. Going for a knee to a foot IS part of an attempt to get up. You could break the "get up" in to many small pieces and they'd still be part of getting up.

The only movement allowed in an "updward" manner is sitting up if they are on their back.

I agree with most things you say Camron, but I'm not sure I agree with this one. I think an "attempt to get up" is open to interpretation. Is just the lifting if one knee enough to be traveling? Is it the foot being placed down that's traveling? Which part changes things to "attempting to get up"? This rule is so ambiguous (similar to "rolling over"), that it will continue to be ruled differently by many people because the parameters are so vaguely written.

[rockyroad]

Gotta agree with Mr. Rust. Why else would the player go from the knee to the foot unless they are making an effort to stand up? Sounds like a travel to me.

[Smitty]

I'm not sure I disagree, I'm just not sure I agree either. I think it might be similar to using a pivot foot. Not trying to get up, but getting the balance needed to make the pass. I don't know - I just think the wording in the rules makes it too vague to say with absolute certainty.

[tref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Gotta agree with Mr. Rust. Why else would the player go from the knee to the foot unless they are making an effort to stand up? Sounds like a travel to me.

Perhaps the player has a scar on their knee or an injury to their knee.

I generally allow them to get up before blowing instead of making interpretations about what the player was trying to accomplish.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Smitty

... This rule is so ambiguous (similar to "rolling over"), that it will continue to be ruled differently by many people because the parameters are so vaguely written.

I think you are just not being honest with yourself. Everybody knows what "getting up" means.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I think you are just not being honest with yourself. Everybody knows what "getting up" means.

Well I do know that the older I get, the tougher it is...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I think you are just not being honest with yourself. Everybody knows what "getting up" means.

If I was not in a public place, I would have yelled out with laughter.

Peace

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Gotta agree with Mr. Rust. Why else would the player go from the knee to the foot unless they are making an effort to stand up? Sounds like a travel to me.

+1

Any call we can make via a discernable act, rather than via judgment, makes thing more objective than subjective, and is better for everyone involved.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Any call we can make via a discernable act, rather than via judgment, makes thing more objective than subjective, and is better for everyone involved.

Whatever all that means. But making a call needs to be backed up by a particular rule infraction, and without clearly written rules, you will continue to have official's interpretations vary.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I'm not sure I disagree, I'm just not sure I agree either.

Have you always been this way? Doesn't your butt get sore with all this fence sitting?

[tref]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Whatever all that means. But making a call needs to be backed up by a particular rule infraction, and without clearly written rules, you will continue to have official's interpretations vary.

+1

Thats the reason why I would wait & see if a knee to foot is an truly an attempt to get up or just an attempt to get off that sore knee. I believe there is a difference. Afterall, whenever I attempt to get up, I always wind up in a standing position on my feet.

IMO, being patient on violations & giving ourselves a chance to replay it in our minds before blowing is the best practice.

In the OP he passed the ball immediately after going knee to foot. Too bad we cant see the play.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by tref

+1

Thats the reason why I would wait & see if a knee to foot is an truly an attempt to get up or just an attempt to get off that sore knee. I believe there is a difference. Afterall, whenever I attempt to get up, I always wind up in a standing position on my feet.

IMO, being patient on violations & giving ourselves a chance to replay it in our minds before blowing is the best practice.

In the OP he passed the ball immediately after going knee to foot. Too bad we cant see the play.

I just know as I move up the ladder calling those 50/50, maybe it is, maybe it isn't, violations does not serve me well. If you have to get into a debate about the intricacies of such a call then let it go. If he is obviously getting up, then go get it.