Back court heat bulls game

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

The play in question:



Under NFHS and NCAA rules, this is a clear violation. It is not so under NBA rules. The defense bats the ball away...thus that ends team control. Turiaf then tries to control the ball..the first initial push to the floor could be considered control...thus he had a positive position in the frontcourt with the ball and the subsequent actions would constitute a backcourt violation.

If the calling official did not believe that constituted control, when Turiaf gains control of the ball, he's in the air...he has not attained a positive position with the ball. His right foot lands in the front, and his left foot appears as though it might have landed on the midcourt line. This would mean he attained a positive position with the ball in the backcourt...which in this case would be legal.

Stop.......put down the telecaster! it's backcourt

And by the way, thanks for posting all these videos, well done, terrific discussion pieces

[APG]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Stop.......put down the telecaster! it's backcourt

You said yourself you have no idea "what they see/don't see in the NBA". As I said in my initial post, you didn't give enough information to say if the call was correct or not. No mention of there being a deflection by the defense (which is a BIG deal on this play). And after posting the play, it's not nearly as blatant as you made it out to be, and may even by a correct call according to NBA rules.

And no problem with the video...so much easier to talk about plays with video rather than A1's and B1's

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Stop.......put down the telecaster! it's backcourt

And by the way, thanks for posting all these videos, well done, terrific discussion pieces

I won't post much on here at all anymore, but this is not a backcourt violation in the least!!! Even if he did control it we deal with momentum as well. What APG said is right, but one thing he forgot involving positive position is that we allow for momentum... We don't expect a player to gather the ball at the last second and then stop on a dime just for backcourt purposes. If he re-gathers after the deflection but his momentum carries him into the backcourt that is a legal play under NBA rules.

Like it or don't like it, it doesn't matter they applied the rule correctly.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

What APG said is right, but one thing he forgot involving positive position is that we allow for momentum... We don't expect a player to gather the ball at the last second and then stop on a dime just for backcourt purposes. If he re-gathers after the deflection but his momentum carries him into the backcourt that is a legal play under NBA rules.

#1, who is this "we" you speak of? Are you an NBA official?

#2, where can this "momentum rule" be found?

#2, so if this same play happens and he steps OOB instead of backcourt, the "momentum rule" allows his team to keep the ball?

[APG]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

#1, who is this "we" you speak of? Are you an NBA official?

#2, where can this "momentum rule" be found?

#2, so if this same play happens and he steps OOB instead of backcourt, the "momentum rule" allows his team to keep the ball?

Btaylor is an NBA D-League official and has worked NBA games as of this year. And when he talks about momentum, it only deals with backcourt calls and only in specific situations...when the ball is loose (as in no team control), from a jump ball, a throw-in in the final two minutes of the 4th/OT, or a defensive player.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

#1, who is this "we" you speak of? Are you an NBA official?

#2, where can this "momentum rule" be found?

#2, so if this same play happens and he steps OOB instead of backcourt, the "momentum rule" allows his team to keep the ball?

He's been in the D-League for a little while now and he has worked NBA games this season.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Btaylor is an NBA D-League official and has worked NBA games as of this year.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

He's been in the D-League for a little while now and he has worked NBA games this season.

Who are you guys, his press secretaries? He can't answer his own questions?

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

And when he talks about momentum, it only deals with backcourt calls and only in specific situations...when the ball is loose (as in no team control), from a jump ball, a throw-in in the final two minutes of the 4th/OT, or a defensive player.

Great. Again, rule reference please.

[APG]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Who are you guys, his press secretaries? He can't answer his own questions?



Great. Again, rule reference please.

The rule in question:

Rule 4, Section V

g. Frontcourt/backcourt status is not attained until a player with the ball has established a positive position in either half during (1) a jump ball, (2) a steal by a defensive player, (3) a throw-in in the last two minutes of the fourth period and/or any overtime period or (4) any time the ball is loose

Positive position, as btaylor told you, deals with momentum.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Who are you guys, his press secretaries? He can't answer his own questions?


....

Why does it matter, as long as your question is answered?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

The rule in question:

Rule 4, Section V

g. Frontcourt/backcourt status is not attained until a player with the ball has established a positive position in either half during (1) a jump ball, (2) a steal by a defensive player, (3) a throw-in in the last two minutes of the fourth period and/or any overtime period or (4) any time the ball is loose

Positive position, as btaylor told you, deals with momentum.

So where is the rule that defines "a positive position" and how it deals with momentum?

Originally Posted by Jay R

Why the game? You know exactly who Ben is? Those of us who have been on this forum for a while know who he is.

Perhaps you know everybody here but I've been here for over 12 years and I have no idea who he is. I don't follow the careers of NBDL officials. Had I known who he was, I wouldn't have had reason to ask.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Why does it matter, as long as your question is answered?

It hasn't been. As I asked above, where is the rule that explains "positive player position" and this momentum exception btaylor64 referred to?

[Jay R]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

#1, who is this "we" you speak of? Are you an NBA official?

#2, where can this "momentum rule" be found?

#2, so if this same play happens and he steps OOB instead of backcourt, the "momentum rule" allows his team to keep the ball?

Why the game? You know exactly who Ben is? Those of us who have been on this forum for a while know who he is.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

I won't post much on here at all anymore, but this is not a backcourt violation in the least!!! Even if he did control it we deal with momentum as well. What APG said is right, but one thing he forgot involving positive position is that we allow for momentum... We don't expect a player to gather the ball at the last second and then stop on a dime just for backcourt purposes. If he re-gathers after the deflection but his momentum carries him into the backcourt that is a legal play under NBA rules.

Like it or don't like it, it doesn't matter they applied the rule correctly.

I don't like it and here's why:

1. the NBA professes to put a product on display featuring some of the most agile, strong, and skilled athletes on the planet.
--So given #1, why does the league need rules about momentum? These fantastic athletes should be able to run, jump, shoot, and stop as needed within the boundaries of the court (or frontcourt and backcourt). If the necessary actions can't be done, then shouldn't that be a turnover and possession awarded to the opposing team?

2. the NBA is an entertainment show first and a competition second.
--in my opinion it ranks somewhere between the Harlem Globetrotters and olympic ice skating. According to everything written by the poster above, it would impossible to state definitively whether a decision was correct or not because there is so much gray area and room for personal judgment in assessing the situation. That means that there really isn't a rule at all. The practical application is that whatever the guys with the whistle choose to allow is fine. Much like whatever score the East German judge wishes to post despite the fact that everyone watching knows it to be bogus. So let's face it, in the end, the league doesn't really care about traveling, backcourt, or basket interference. It just wants to create superstars for marketing and ringing the cash register.

3. the NBA writes its rules to cater to the desires of its paying customers--namely the fans and TV producers. If the fans want more scoring, that is what the league attempts to legislate.
--The restricted area, "upward movement" for block/charge decisions, and "two-count rhythm" which the league uses for establishing a pivot are all examples of this. Why can't these guys avoid defenders near the basket, make a six-foot jumpshot, and come to stop after catching a pass without taking multiple steps?

The "rules" that the NBA writes effectively reduce the game officials to clowns running around the circus. If someone wants to take the money for being part of its show, then that is certainly his choice, but don't try to convince me that these people are doing anything more than stage acting.

[APG]

All I can say about Nevada's opinion is..."interesting."

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

All I can say about Nevada's opinion is..."interesting."

That is not the first time we have heard that here.

Peace

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

All I can say about Nevada's opinion is..."interesting."

Interesting and spot on.