The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2012, 10:38am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Missouri
Posts: 671
back court question from MU v Tex game

Don't recall the time this happened so sorry no video, but there was a play where MU was doing a weave handoff up top, the Tex defender hits the ball down off the MU player's leg and the ball goes backcourt and is recovered by MU in the backcourt. Backcourt got called. That's not the right call is it?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2012, 10:59am
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 14,840
Since you posed the question first tell us why you think the call was incorrect.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2012, 11:06am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 7,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
Since you posed the question first tell us why you think the call was incorrect.
You know why he thinks it's wrong: because the defender caused the loss of player control.

You also know that this is completely irrelevant to the backcourt call. Last to touch, first to touch. Easy as pie (as a first approximation).
__________________
Cheers,
mb
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2012, 11:14am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Missouri
Posts: 671
yes, because the defensive player caused a loss of control and the offensive player did not regain control prior to it going into the BC. We've had a couple posts on here where on an inbounds play A1 touches the ball in FC but doesn't gain control until in the BC and that is clean, so I was assuming the same logic applied.

So if a D1 tips a pass and it then clips A1's hand on the way to the BC and then A1 recovers, that is BC?
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2012, 11:17am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,183
Quote:
Originally Posted by ballgame99 View Post
yes, because the defensive player caused a loss of control and the offensive player did not regain control prior to it going into the BC. We've had a couple posts on here where on an inbounds play A1 touches the ball in FC but doesn't gain control until in the BC and that is clean, so I was assuming the same logic applied.

So if a D1 tips a pass and it then clips A1's hand on the way to the BC and then A1 recovers, that is BC?
The throw-in rule has an exception. And a tipped ball by the defense, f/c or back does not cause team control to end.

Is B1s tipped pass a live ball in the frontcourt or a throw-in pass... it all depends.
__________________
I gotta new attitude!
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2012, 11:17am
APG APG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,889
Requirements for backcourt violation:

1. Team control (and initial player control established at some point if coming from a throw-in)
2. Ball achieves a frontcourt status
3. The team in control is the last to touch the ball before the ball achieves a backcourt status
4. The team in control is the first to touch the ball after it achieves a backcourt status.

Your issue with the play is with the definition of team control and when it ends. Team control ends only if the ball becomes dead, there's a try, or the other team gains control of the ball.
__________________
Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.

Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.


Last edited by APG; Tue Jan 31, 2012 at 11:19am.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2012, 11:22am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by ballgame99 View Post
yes, because the defensive player caused a loss of control and the offensive player did not regain control prior to it going into the BC. We've had a couple posts on here where on an inbounds play A1 touches the ball in FC but doesn't gain control until in the BC and that is clean, so I was assuming the same logic applied.

So if a D1 tips a pass and it then clips A1's hand on the way to the BC and then A1 recovers, that is BC?
Are you a referee or a fan?
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2012, 11:26am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,183
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Are you a referee or a fan?

If its the former, just watch the shot clock on the bottom of your screen. If it doesnt reset, then you know that t/c exists even though there is no p/c.
__________________
I gotta new attitude!
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2012, 11:31am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 7,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by ballgame99 View Post
yes, because the defensive player caused a loss of control and the offensive player did not regain control prior to it going into the BC. We've had a couple posts on here where on an inbounds play A1 touches the ball in FC but doesn't gain control until in the BC and that is clean, so I was assuming the same logic applied.

So if a D1 tips a pass and it then clips A1's hand on the way to the BC and then A1 recovers, that is BC?
Team control may continue to exist even when player control is lost: the rule is written this way to cover the situation where a foul occurs during a pass between players on the offense. So loss of player control doesn't affect the backcourt rule.

That rule, as others have mentioned, has an exception that applies to throw-ins. The same logic thus does not apply.
__________________
Cheers,
mb

Last edited by mbyron; Tue Jan 31, 2012 at 11:38am.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2012, 11:35am
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 14,840
Quote:
Originally Posted by ballgame99 View Post
yes, because the defensive player caused a loss of control and the offensive player did not regain control prior to it going into the BC. We've had a couple posts on here where on an inbounds play A1 touches the ball in FC but doesn't gain control until in the BC and that is clean, so I was assuming the same logic applied.

So if a D1 tips a pass and it then clips A1's hand on the way to the BC and then A1 recovers, that is BC?
You have to remember there is Player Control and there is Team Control. Must be specific when discussing things like backcourt.

As has been stated, during and subsequent a throw-in, backcourt violations can only occur after Player Control has been established.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2012, 11:36am
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
Team control continues to exist even when player control is lost: the rule is written this way to cover the situation where a foul occurs during a pass between players on the offense.
Are you sure of this?
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2012, 11:38am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 7,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Are you sure of this?
Should have said, "... may continue to exist ..."

Of that I'm sure.
__________________
Cheers,
mb
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2012, 11:39am
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 14,840
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Are you sure of this?
Just substitute "can continue" for "continues".
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2012, 11:49am
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
Should have said, "... may continue to exist ..."

Of that I'm sure.
Sorry, I was talking about your interpretation of why the rule is written that way.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2012, 12:03pm
M.A.S.H.
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,030
They nailed this call.

Also, nailed the F1 towards the end of the game (although, I think he orginally signaled PC); nonetheless, they shot the free throws.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Back Court Question PIAA REF Basketball 35 Fri Dec 03, 2010 06:21pm
Another back court question Hardwood Basketball 1 Fri Nov 27, 2009 04:02pm
Another Back Court Question FishinRef Basketball 24 Tue Dec 05, 2006 08:30pm
another back court question walter Basketball 44 Fri Jun 30, 2000 08:57am
Another back court question BSL Basketball 10 Mon Dec 06, 1999 03:33pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:26am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1