i saw an illegal call by the ref in the bulls/rockets game

[PackersFTW]

we've all seen bad calls, thousands of times, but have you ever seen a ref make a call that wasn't even legal? during the game, ron artest drove to the basket, and andres nocioni wrapped him up, and the foul was kinda hard, but not really. well, the ref saw the foul as too hard, so gave nocioni a technical on top of the regular foul. so i was like hmm i thought it's either a regular or a flagrant. turns out i was right. check this out, straight from nba.com:

"Section V--Conduct
a. An official may assess a technical foul, without prior warning, at any time. A technical foul(s) may be assessed to any player on the court or anyone seated on the bench for conduct which, in the opinion of an official, is detrimental to the game. A technical foul cannot be assessed for physical contact when the ball is alive. "

and i know what everybody is thinking, and i don't blame you. you think that i'm mistaken, and the technical must have been for arguing after the call, on somebody else, etc, but that wasn't the case. the announcers were slightly confused, and the coach asked the ref what's up, but i believe they were talking more of why was he called for a hard foul, instead of noticing you can't even call a technical for a hard foul. i'm just curious how a 24 year old who has no nba experience noticed this, yet the coaching staff, officials, and announcers didn't.

[Welpe]

To my colleagues that work basketball, you're welcome.

[PackersFTW]

Originally Posted by Welpe

To my colleagues that work basketball, you're welcome.

huh?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Welpe

To my colleagues that work basketball, you're welcome.

You know what to do.

[Adam]

So, what's your source for saying the ref called what you say he did?

[PackersFTW]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

So, what's your source for saying the ref called what you say he did?

the bulls/rockets game, at the 4:15 mark of the 2nd quarter? usually what happens is, you assume the OP is truthful, and say something like "well, if what you say happened, happened, then yes, that was an illegal call". never heard of somebody wanting proof of something like this. you could ask for proof on pretty much any thread in that case.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

So, what's your source for saying the ref called what you say he did?

The play-by-play clearly has two fouls being called (at the same game time -- 4:15 of the 2nd quarter). I don't know (nor do I care) whether "two fouls for one act" is allowed under NBA rules (I doubt it). It wouldn't be allowed under FED or NCAA rules.

I would find it surprising if an NBA ref didn't get the rule right -- but officials (in all sports) have erred before.

[Adam]

You haven't been here long, have you?

I'm going to assume an NBA ref did not call a TF on a contact foul, especially if he also called a PF on the same contact. Maybe something happened after the PF that drew the TF.

[PackersFTW]

i love this forum, because on any other forum, they would be like omg it's one call, who cares. but this is an officiating forum, so it's perfect.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The play-by-play clearly has two fouls being called (at the same game time -- 4:15 of the 2nd quarter). I don't know (nor do I care) whether "two fouls for one act" is allowed under NBA rules (I doubt it). It wouldn't be allowed under FED or NCAA rules.

I would find it surprising if an NBA ref didn't get the rule right -- but officials (in all sports) have erred before.

like i said, this is the first time i've ever noticed this. as far as the rules go, for a foul on the ball carrier, it's either a personal foul (shooting or non; 1-3 shots at the line) or a flagrant (2 shots and the ball; possible ejection)

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You haven't been here long, have you?

I'm going to assume an NBA ref did not call a TF on a contact foul, especially if he also called a PF on the same contact. Maybe something happened after the PF that drew the TF.

i've been here for months. made over 100 posts probably. why?

i want to assume the same thing, thus why i'm here. the thing is, i replayed it many times (i would never come on here and claim something when i only saw it once in real time), and it was nothing more than a simple intentional foul, so he had nothing to complain about. as soon as he fouled, he went on with his business in a calm manner, not saying anything, and standing in his lane space for the free throw. then out of nowhere a technical, and the announcers talked about him getting a technical because it was a hard foul.

the PA announcer announced "technical foul on andres nocioni", not a defensive 3 seconds or something. and when they call defenive 3 seconds, they usually don't say who it was on (the PA announcer i mean), and definitely wouldn't leave out the words "defensive 3 seconds", so that rules that out.

about 15 seconds after the foul, when everybody was lining up on the line, neil funk said "the officials are gonna talk it over and see if that's a.." and he stopped there, probably going to say flagrant. nocioni said nothing all the way up to the call of the T.

so what APPEARS to have happened is they called the foul, then everybody started to line up on the lane while the officials got together and decided the foul was too hard, so they called a T?

i thought of one more possibility. mistake by the PA announcer, calling it on nocioni when it was on somebody else.

[Adam]

If that's what happened, I'm sure he'll be reprimanded by the NBA.

And, your post count is listed underneath your join date, November 2008, but that's irrelevant. My point was that we don't always assume the OP got the facts straight when they're claiming an official made an error like this. My first assumption is that there's information the OP didn't have access to that explains the perceived error.

[Adam]

The fact that he got charged with two fouls on this play tells me they either called him for something he said afterwards (you say the replay shows he said nothing, fair enough) or for contact after the foul. Perhaps there was continuing action after the foul that lead to the official calling the TF.

[deecee]

I highly doubt the NBA officials made a rule mistake. These guys know the book inside out, and if they do err its usually an error is interpretation. Its also very rare that if one officials screws up the other 2 dont know whats going on to correct it.

I highly doubt its as you say it was, and I would need some sort of evidence to believe you. Your many months (2) and over 100 (read: 46) posts would lead me to believe you are mistaken. I could be wrong, but from where I stand the evidence points me in that direction.

[PackersFTW]

HAZAA! i figured it out. i kept replaying it, and i was noticing that the whistle appeared to blow about 3/4 of a second before the foul, and then again after. i'm sure that what happened was, when artest drove to the lane, nocioni lightly fouled him (this is what they called the foul on), then .75 seconds later, he wrapped him up, so they basically said that we already blew the whistle, and you continued to foul him.

it makes sense, because after the first whistle, they blew the whistle twice, as if to say 'hey, hey! plays over!' so my confusion is partly on the officials for T'ing up nocioni for fouling a fraction of a second past the whistle, and on the announcers for implying it was for the foul, not after.

although i still think they (funk and king) possibly thought it was how i thought it was, and just didn't know the rules. wouldn't be the first time. just a few weeks ago, hubie brown stated 2-3x that a flagrant foul is one shot and the ball, and then after he realized it was 2, he owned up to the mistake and said announcers should know the rules.

[PackersFTW]

Originally Posted by deecee

I highly doubt the NBA officials made a rule mistake. These guys know the book inside out, and if they do err its usually an error is interpretation. Its also very rare that if one officials screws up the other 2 dont know whats going on to correct it.

I highly doubt its as you say it was, and I would need some sort of evidence to believe you. Your many months (2) and over 100 (read: 46) posts would lead me to believe you are mistaken. I could be wrong, but from where I stand the evidence points me in that direction.

you guys seem to be under the impression that i'm saying that i'm 100% right, and nothing you can say will change my mind. if i thought i wasn't mistaken, and was 100% right, why would i come here asking questions? also, i could have 1000 posts, that proves nothing. if anything, age would be most indicative; i'd believe somebody who is 24 with 9 posts over somebody who is 17 with 1853 posts.

i knew i was probably mistaken (several people, including officials, not noticing the rules? c'mon), i just couldn't figure it out. from my experience on forums in general, a FEW of you should take some advice, which is: when you know or think somebody is mistaken, making smart *** remarks or flat out insulting them makes you look like an angry teen flamer. especially when you try and make him out to be the bad guy just because he then defends himself against your/others comments. i try and play dumb when people do this, and pretend i don't know they're insulting me. i just don't know why people get so insulting just because somebody says something wrong. forums are for discussions, and people are bound to be mistaken in discussions. this stems from other threads, not really this one.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You know what to do.

I will go watch the Rachel Maddow show as penance.