ND vs Temple

[just another ref]

The problem is inconsistency. Somebody was complaining in another thread yesterday, I think, about this exact violation not being called. If that is the case with this call, (it's simply not called at this level) like the Austin Rivers traveling videos we recently watched, and now it is called in an extreme situation such as this, I'm with Barkley, that sucks.

Has anyone by any chance reviewed more of the video of this game? Did this guy step in on other free throws without a call?

[Duffman]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The problem is inconsistency. Somebody was complaining in another thread yesterday, I think, about this exact violation not being called. If that is the case with this call, (it's simply not called at this level) like the Austin Rivers traveling videos we recently watched, and now it is called in an extreme situation such as this, I'm with Barkley, that sucks.

Has anyone by any chance reviewed more of the video of this game? Did this guy step in on other free throws without a call?

A fair point.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The problem is inconsistency. Somebody was complaining in another thread yesterday, I think, about this exact violation not being called. If that is the case with this call, (it's simply not called at this level) like the Austin Rivers traveling videos we recently watched, and now it is called in an extreme situation such as this, I'm with Barkley, that sucks.

Has anyone by any chance reviewed more of the video of this game? Did this guy step in on other free throws without a call?

I believe both violations (yesterday and tonight) were the result of players coming in from outside the 3-point arc, not simply toe-touching within the lane. In the Syracuse game yesterday, the announcers initially focused on players in the lane from a bird's-eye view and how "close" it was, but it wasn't until after the game we saw the actual violation was the player coming in from outside the arc and almost to the block by the time the ball hit the rim. I believe it was the same essential call tonight.

What sucks is the player let his "NBA instincts" take over at that point in the game and he forgot the rule. What also sucks is letting NBA announcers use their NBA training to bash the NCAA officials without really knowing what they're talking about.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Duffman

Cameron, I'm referring to the hand fighting going on between two players in marked spaces while the shooter holds the ball.

So am I. What kind of violation do you think they have committed?

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The problem is inconsistency. Somebody was complaining in another thread yesterday, I think, about this exact violation not being called. If that is the case with this call, (it's simply not called at this level) like the Austin Rivers traveling videos we recently watched, and now it is called in an extreme situation such as this, I'm with Barkley, that sucks.

Has anyone by any chance reviewed more of the video of this game? Did this guy step in on other free throws without a call?

Someone DOES read my posts

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

You will learn the advantage-disadvantage applies to fouls but not to violations.

Ten seconds on a free throw? Three seconds in the lane?

It is important to know the intent and purpose of a rule so that it may
be intelligently applied in each play situation. A player or a team should not be
permitted an advantage which is not intended by a rule. Neither should play be
permitted to develop which may lead to placing a player at a disadvantage not
intended by a rule.

We've been down this road before. I think that it's best if we all agree to disagree, and just follow the, "When in Rome ...", philosophy:

Travel much?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Duffman

Cameron, I'm referring to the hand fighting going on between two players in marked spaces while the shooter holds the ball.

And I'd accept what you are saying in the event you can tell me honestly that you've never passed on a 3 second violation when a player has a toe in the lane opposite of where the ball is and isn't using his/her position in the lane to gain an advantage, but I doubt you'd be able to do that.

Like Camron, I'd love to see a rule reference to know what violation these players are committing in your "hand fighting" scenario.

You cannot possibly be comparing the player running from the arc to the block to the big guy with a toe on the FT line.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The problem is inconsistency. Somebody was complaining in another thread yesterday, I think, about this exact violation not being called. If that is the case with this call, (it's simply not called at this level) like the Austin Rivers traveling videos we recently watched, and now it is called in an extreme situation such as this, I'm with Barkley, that sucks.

Has anyone by any chance reviewed more of the video of this game? Did this guy step in on other free throws without a call?

If someone can show me video of other plays where this player entered from the arc, that early, without a call. Then I'll buy the consistency argument. Otherwise, it's just as much of a load of crap as when I hear it from MS coaches.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The problem is inconsistency. Somebody was complaining in another thread yesterday, I think, about this exact violation not being called. If that is the case with this call, (it's simply not called at this level) like the Austin Rivers traveling videos we recently watched, and now it is called in an extreme situation such as this, I'm with Barkley, that sucks.

Has anyone by any chance reviewed more of the video of this game? Did this guy step in on other free throws without a call?

A few other things to remember:

1. The calls were obvious.
2. If you want to argue the whole advantage/disadvantage aspect, the kid who violated in the UNCA/Syracuse game also happened to be the one who ended up rebounding the missed free throw. If that's not an advantage then I don't know what is.

I feel the same way Snagwells does on this one: find a play where a kid was 3-4 steps inside the 3-point arc before the ball hit the rim/backboard and it wasn't called and I'll say you have a good point. But on back-to-back days we saw the same situation and it was called the same way.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If someone can show me video of other plays where this player entered from the arc, that early, without a call. Then I'll buy the consistency argument. Otherwise, it's just as much of a load of crap as when I hear it from MS coaches.

CBSSports channel will replay a bunch of the games. I saw the UNCA game and darn if the same player didn't break the arc AGAIN on the 2nd free throw.
I'm not saying the call was wrong. Even if you are using the advantage/disadvantage the player DID get the rebound. These plays will probably be on a Preventative Officiating portion of next years NCAA video

[Altor]

Originally Posted by Judtech

These plays will probably be on a Preventative Officiating portion of next years NCAA video

And how would they suggest the officials prevent it? Should officials remind those not on the lane that they can't enter until the ball hits? Do they need to remind them before every FT? Or just in the last minute? Or only in the tournament?

No. This one's on the players for not knowing the rules and on the coaches for not teaching them the rules.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If someone can show me video of other plays where this player entered from the arc, that early, without a call. Then I'll buy the consistency argument. Otherwise, it's just as much of a load of crap as when I hear it from MS coaches.

The only reason I brought this up is because it had just been mentioned the day before. I have never noticed this violation in an NCAA game, called or not.
I was asking the question, is this one that is not called?

Around here, at the high school level, entering early is almost never called. I've kinda adopted the "when in Rome" attitude and backed off the call myself.

[Duffman]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Like Camron, I'd love to see a rule reference to know what violation these players are committing in your "hand fighting" scenario.

You cannot possibly be comparing the player running from the arc to the block to the big guy with a toe on the FT line.

I'm not comparing them, Im responding to the thought that advantage/disadvantage was not a factor for violations.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Duffman

I'm not comparing them, Im responding to the thought that advantage/disadvantage was not a factor for violations.

That may be, but one of the things you mention is not even a violation, ever.....and brings into question your knowledge of the rules which makes it hard to discuss philosophy of how they should be called.

And A/D is not a factor for violations...it is understanding the purpose of the rule and knowing when to apply it.

[The_Rookie]

Originally Posted by reffish

Great calls at end of game. Free throw violation on the front end of one and one. Then the intentional foul on throw-in.

The official making these calls was Mike Stuart...lets see since he made these late game calls..that he is rewarded by moving deep into the rest of tourney