UNC-Asheville/Syracuse End of 1st Half

[bgredmchn]

Originally Posted by grunewar

"I'd like to know how many times that's been called all yr."

Yeah, I'm sure they have stats for that Charles! "You don't call that in this situation. Players decide the game!"

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bigwhistle

Do they no longer already preselect the 1st two rounds? It used to be that the officials would know ahead of time if they were working one or two games.

Yes, they are preselected for Thu/Sat & Fri/Sun.

Also, I believe when the officials get their opening round assignments they are given some kind of indicator as to whether or not they considered for an opportunity to be one of the 36 officials who will advance to the Sweet 16/Elite 8.

[Mark Dexter]

Hey, guys. Haven't been on here in years, but when I saw the shot clock play, this board was my first thought. I remember posting a hypothetical a few years ago about an NFHS game with foul, whistle, buzzer, shot, and what the ruling would be. Can't say I agree with the crew on the floor on this one, although if they judged the shot clock violation before the foul, they at least interpreted the situation correctly.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Yes, they are preselected for Thu/Sat & Fri/Sun.

Also, I believe when the officials get their opening round assignments they are given some kind of indicator as to whether or not they considered for an opportunity to be one of the 36 officials who will advance to the Sweet 16/Elite 8.

Like a decoder ring?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

Like a decoder ring?

Have a mentor on the Women's side who once told me that when they get their opening round email/letter there is some kind of code included within the notification correspondence. If your correspondence didn't have the code then you know you do not have a chance move on.

bigjake, I'm sure, can give us the details and correct me if I'm wrong.

[Spence]

Re: the oob play.

Pass hits A1's hands, goes through his hands, then B1 collides with him.

How many are calling that a foul?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Yes, they are preselected for Thu/Sat & Fri/Sun.

Also, I believe when the officials get their opening round assignments they are given some kind of indicator as to whether or not they considered for an opportunity to be one of the 36 officials who will advance to the Sweet 16/Elite 8.

Any idea when they get their notice? Before the brackets are set? Afterwards?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Spence

Re: the oob play.

Pass hits A1's hands, goes through his hands, then B1 collides with him.

How many are calling that a foul?

That's what you see in slo-mo. Regular speed, not so sure.

[Judtech]

Did anyone notice that the Ashville players were committing the same violation on many of the free throws? In fact, a player crossed the line again on the second free throw AFTER the violation was called. IMO had the UNCA player not gotten that rebound, they would not have blown a violation. Like I said the Bulldogs were doing that all night/afternoon

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I am joining the thread late and I will address all of the three plays in the order that they occurred.

Play #1: First, some of the posts in this thread questioned the use of PST. I thought that PST was used all throught the Tournament becuase it is used in just about every Division I game played during the regular season; and I think that the use or non-use of PST in this game has a bearing of how this play is handled. As an example: Let us assume that the Shot Clock is not a factor and only the Game Clock is a factor. If a player is fouled in the Act of Shooting before the Game Clock expires but the ball is not released before the Game Clock expires then the FG if successful will not count, and the Shooter will be awarded two or three FTs depending upon the type of FGA.

I just watched APG's video post of the play at the end of the first half. That said, my take from watching APG's video post is this: The foul occurred as the Syracuse player was starting his Act of Shooting and well before he released the ball and it also occured before the the Shot Clock expired.

If PST was being used the Game and Shot Clocks should have stopped on the whistle (It is my learned opinion that this play is a perfect example of why the Shot Clock should not stop with the game clock and another reason why I am not in favor of a Shot Clock but that it the subject matter for another thread.). If PST was not used, one question that can be asked is was there too much lag time between the time whistle sounded and the clock stopped.

From my viewing of the video was that the Official's whistle sounded and the Shot Clock expired at the same time which appeared to have happened just before the ball left the Syracuse player's hand. It is my opinion that the foul in the Act of Shooting definitely occurred before the Shot Clock expired. Since the ball was not released before the Shot Clock expired, then the basket should not count and two FTs should have been awarded.


Play #2: The FT Violation. I do not know what the big deal is. I thought the L missed the defensive violation on the low block opposite of him, but the C got the "really" obvious one by the defender outside the three-point arc.


Play #3: This is either a foul by the Asheville Player or OOB off the Syracuse Player. My call is a CF by the Asheville Player because the contact was before the ball had touched OOB.


MTD, Sr.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I just watched APG's video post of the play at the end of the first half. That said, my take from watching APG's video post is this: The foul occurred as the Syracuse player was starting his Act of Shooting and well before he released the ball and it also occured before the the Shot Clock expired.

I've seen this written a few times now. Wouldn't the shot clock stop on the whistle? It's not treated the same as the game clock, is it?

[Jesse James]

Originally Posted by Judtech

Did anyone notice that the Ashville players were committing the same violation on many of the free throws? In fact, a player crossed the line again on the second free throw AFTER the violation was called. IMO had the UNCA player not gotten that rebound, they would not have blown a violation. Like I said the Bulldogs were doing that all night/afternoon

Syracuse was standing on/overlapping to the Asheville lane space while Jardine's was sizing up his replacement free throws also.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by GROUPthink

I've seen this written a few times now. Wouldn't the shot clock stop on the whistle? It's not treated the same as the game clock, is it?

Poor timers. When you're near the buzzers, you best be sure to not screw up.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by GROUPthink

I've seen this written a few times now. Wouldn't the shot clock stop on the whistle? It's not treated the same as the game clock, is it?

Yes — the shot clock and game clock would stop at the same time. However, on this play neither one of them stopped ... looks like the timer just missed it and allowed time to expire.

The foul was clearly before either clock expired —*but the shot was not released until after the shot clock expired. The correct thing to do would have been to disallow the basket and put the player on the line for two free throws.

Unlike what the announcers said, the shot clock does not cause the foul not to count.

If the officials decided that the shot clock expired before the foul, then the shot-clock violation would take precedence. I think that is what they may have done and, if so, they were wrong.

[APG]

I don't understand the people that say he should be awarded two shots but not count the basket. There's no need to account for any lag time...you have use of the monitor so you have definite knowledge of the timing devices.

You go to replay and see if the foul happened before the violation. Since it occurred before the violation, it means the clock should have stopped. Him releasing the ball before or after the expiration of the shot clock has NO bearing on this play since it expired erroneously. Put the time back on the game clock for when the foul occurred, count the basket, and shoot one shot.