loose ball in backcourt

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by rsl

Do I call the ten second violation, even though there is no visible count?

No. There must be a visible count. When the coach looks at the video the next day, and doesn't see your visible count, he's going to hit the ceiling. When he comes back down to the ground, his next step is a call to your assigner.

[tref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

No. There must be a visible count. When the coach looks at the video the next day, and doesn't see your visible count, he's going to hit the ceiling. When he comes back down to the ground, his next step is a call to your assigner.

Perhaps, but is the counter on the DVD player not enough to justify 16 seconds in the b/c

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by tref

Perhaps, but is the counter on the DVD player not enough to justify 16 seconds in the b/c

Rulebook says that there must be a visible count. Two wrongs don't make a right, and no matter how right the wrong is, it's still two wrongs. I would rather explain one screwup to my assigner than two screwups.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

My problem is this: What if *I* decided that there was a change in team control in the backcourt and then you as the lead come up and tell me it's a 10-second violation?

I'd leave. It. Alone.

This was my thinking as well. A 10 second backcourt call is not a game saving call. It's not an elephant.

[tref]

BillyMac I hear ya! FTR, Im laying off this one as well.

Originally Posted by Smitty

This was my thinking as well. A 10 second backcourt call is not a game saving call. It's not an elephant.

If Team B is down by 1 with under 20 seconds to play, does the misconception of t/c turn this sitch into an elephant?

[rsl]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Rulebook says that there must be a visible count. Two wrongs don't make a right, and no matter how right the wrong is, it's still two wrongs. I would rather explain one screwup to my assigner than two screwups.

This is pretty much the essence of my original question. By rule, does the absence of a visual count mean there cannot be a ten second violation?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by rsl

This is pretty much the essence of my original question. By rule, does the absence of a visual count mean there cannot be a ten second violation?

no

[IUgrad92]

Originally Posted by just another ref

no

Exactly.... For example, "Coach, the clock was at 5:50 when you inbounded the ball, the clock is now at 5:34 and the ball still has backcourt status, with no change in team control." Put that in your video and smoke it......

Another tip RSL, get the time from the GAME CLOCK on change in possession. That is all you need to resolve 10-second violations, shot clock discrepencies, etc.

[tref]

Originally Posted by IUgrad92

Exactly.... For example, "Coach, the clock was at 5:50 when you inbounded the ball, the clock is now at 5:34 and the ball still has backcourt status, with no change in team control." Put that in your video and smoke it......

Another tip RSL, get the time from the GAME CLOCK on change in possession. That is all you need to resolve 10-second violations, shot clock discrepencies, etc.

+1
Whoop there it is!

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by tref

If Team B is down by 1 with under 20 seconds to play, does the misconception of t/c turn this sitch into an elephant?

I would have to be looking at a lot of stuff I shouldn't be looking at in order to be absolutely certain that no one from the other team momentarily gained possession (in my partner's opinion). Clearly if I am THAT focused on everything that's going on with the ball, then we have 4 eyes on the ball, and someone isn't looking where they're supposed to be looking. Regardless, I am not making a 10 second call from that position.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I would have to be looking at a lot of stuff I shouldn't be looking at in order to be absolutely certain that no one from the other team momentarily gained possession (in my partner's opinion). Clearly if I am THAT focused on everything that's going on with the ball, then we have 4 eyes on the ball, and someone isn't looking where they're supposed to be looking. Regardless, I am not making a 10 second call from that position.

I respect that Smitty.

But I really think FOV needs to be clarified or redfined! To some FOV seems to mean tunnel vision while others tend to believe FOV means officiating your PCA while still being cognizant of what else is going on on the court.
I believe that exceptional officials tend to chew bubble gum & walk at the same time, while decent/good officials just chew bubble gum.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by tref

I respect that Smitty.

But I really think FOV needs to be clarified or redfined! To some FOV seems to mean tunnel vision while others tend to believe FOV means officiating your PCA while still being cognizant of what else is going on on the court.
I believe that exceptional officials tend to chew bubble gum & walk at the same time, while decent/good officials just chew bubble gum.

I certainly understand what you're saying. But this is similar (to me) to me being lead in the frontcourt and player A1 makes a pass from my primary back out to a teammate behind the 3 point line and the pass appears to me to be untouched as it goes into the backcourt where it is picked up by A2. I am 99% sure no one has touched it, but my partner does not call a backcourt violation. Am I going to blow my whistle from lead? No. This is the same kind of play to me. I may be convinced otherwise if there is more argument, but I just don't feel comfortable making this call from C or new L (2-man).

[tref]

I can dig it! Those are tough situations to provide help on. Now, if the game is on the line I'm sure you would do whats right for the game.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by tref

I can dig it! Those are tough situations to provide help on. Now, if the game is on the line I'm sure you would do whats right for the game.

Again, I'm not touching it - especially if there has been some skirmish for the ball where it's even remotely possible my partner, who is primary on this play, may consider B to have gained momentary control. We are going back and forth, so I will just leave it at that. For now.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by smitty

i would have to be looking at a lot of stuff i shouldn't be looking at in order to be absolutely certain that no one from the other team momentarily gained possession (in my partner's opinion). Clearly if i am that focused on everything that's going on with the ball, then we have 4 eyes on the ball, and someone isn't looking where they're supposed to be looking. Regardless, i am not making a 10 second call from that position.

+1