loose ball in backcourt

[rsl]

Last night...

Partner is three seconds into a ten second count when ball is knocked away by the defense on full court press. Partner drops his count. The ball bounces around in the back court for a good five seconds when it is finally picked up again by the same team deep in their own backcourt. Three seconds later, the dribbler is double teamed and stopped, still in his backcourt.

As new lead (two man) I am helping cover the press from about half court.

Do I call the ten second violation, even though there is no visible count?

[tref]

Is that your area? Is that your responsibility? j/k

Personally, I'm leaving this one alone (especially in the wreck environment) but I would talk to my partner about when the b/c count ends/restarts.

[rsl]

Unfortunately, I think you are right, tref.

Since I didn't have a count, I waited about five more seconds, then made the call. It wasn't a very popular call.

On the other hand, The defense had now held in the backcourt for sixteen seconds. It didn't seem fair to them not to reward their effort.

But I had a credibility problem for the rest of the night, because no one else in the gym (including my partner) understood team control. They all thought I was crazy.

[ballgame99]

So you are saying the defensive team never gained possession? They just got a hand on a ball or two? Just want to understand what happened.

[mj]

No. This one is on your partner.

[rsl]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

So you are saying the defensive team never gained possession? They just got a hand on a ball or two? Just want to understand what happened.

Yes, ball was knocked loose and pin-balled around for a bit, but the defense never gained control.

[zm1283]

This one is all on him. Let him eat it if he screws up. I'd rather do that than step on his toes and take the heat the rest of the night for it.

[rsl]

Originally Posted by mj

No. This one is on your partner.

No, I blame this forum. If you guys didn't teach me the rules I wouldn't have these problems. I'd be blissfully ignorant like the rest of the gym.

[IUgrad92]

Originally Posted by rsl

Unfortunately, I think you are right, tref.

Since I didn't have a count, I waited about five more seconds, then made the call. It wasn't a very popular call.

On the other hand, The defense had now held in the backcourt for sixteen seconds. It didn't seem fair to them not to reward their effort.

But I had a credibility problem for the rest of the night, because no one else in the gym (including my partner) understood team control. They all thought I was crazy.

If you were 110% sure, I have no problem with it. Especially since you were 'in the play' at half-court and were engaged verses watching from the opposite endline. I'll reference 1.2.15 of the NFHS Officials Manual.

Now I wouldn't make this call right at 10 seconds, but like you said in the OP, you were at 16 with basically no end in sight, I probably would have done the same. There are 2-3 officials on the court for a reason. That's a normal point in pre-games I am a part of. If something happens in my area and I have a mental lapse, I want my partner(s) to come help. My feelings will not be hurt. Now a 50/50 call is something totally different.

Why would you care about credibility with people that don't understand team control? Personally, I'm not losing sleep over that one. However, if I don't make that backcourt call and that team eventually scored on that possession and they end up winning the game by 1 point, then I would probably have a tougher time sleeping.

IMHO, there is a fine line with letting you're partner eat a non-call verses helping your partner on an obvious foul or violation. And when I say obvious, I mean obvious to any other basketball official that actually knows the rules.

[Rich]

I would not touch this. I have my reasons.

[Toren]

I would never call this. And I might have a word with my partner, but if my partner doesn't know this basic rule then what's he doing on the court to begin with? Probably not going to waste my time unless it is a new official that has an excuse to not know it.

[Scrapper1]

If there's a shot clock, I would absolutely call it based on the time left on the shot clock and point at the shot clock.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by IUgrad92

Now I wouldn't make this call right at 10 seconds, but like you said in the OP, you were at 16 with basically no end in sight, I probably would have done the same.

There it is.

If you recognize that your partner is not an experienced official, then I can see stepping it up. Similarly, if were the trail, and I instinctively (albeit incorrectly) dropped my count in the backcourt, I'd appreciate my partner having my back like that.

Meanwhile, as already stated, if others don't understand the concept of team control, that's not on you.

[Rich]

My problem is this: What if *I* decided that there was a change in team control in the backcourt and then you as the lead come up and tell me it's a 10-second violation?

I'd leave. It. Alone.

[IUgrad92]

I'm going based on what is in the OP which says 'the ball was bouncing around and then controlled again by the same team '. What you're 'what if-ing' is something closer to a 50/50 and not 'obvious', thus I'd agree with you.

However, in this case, at least from how the play was described, I'd say it was obvious that team control had not changed, thus a partner that was fully engaged on the play should help his/her partner.