Incorrect travel

[tref]

1. A1 jumps to attempt a layup, B1 caps the ball up high. The ball comes loose while both players are in the air, on the way down A1 regains control of the ball, then lands. The official calls travelling. Coach & fans go nutz & you have a great look.

2. A1 drives to the basket, gathers the ball then bobbles it & completes the layup. Official calls travel on the team that is up by 15+ & nobody says boo, but you have a great look.

3. A1 trapped by B1 & B2 just beyond the timeline in a pressing transition situation, the T has backs & butts. From L you clearly see B1 has a hand firmly on the ball. A1 moves his feet beyond the prescribed limits as B1 still has the ball. The T calls travel. Coach & fans go nutz & you have a great look.

In which of these win or go home game situations do you provide information to the calling official?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by tref

1. A1 jumps to attempt a layup, B1 caps the ball up high. The ball comes loose while both players are in the air, on the way down A1 regains control of the ball, then lands. The official calls travelling. Coach & fans go nutz & you have a great look.

2. A1 drives to the basket, gathers the ball then bobbles it & completes the layup. Official calls travel on the team that is up by 15+ & nobody says boo, but you have a great look.

3. A1 trapped by B1 & B2 just beyond the timeline in a pressing transition situation, the T has backs & butts. From L you clearly see B1 has a hand firmly on the ball. A1 moves his feet beyond the prescribed limits as B1 still has the ball. The T calls travel. Coach & fans go nutz & you have a great look.

In which of these win or go home game situations do you provide information to the calling official?

Play #1: I assume the word "cap" means that B1 placed his hand(s) on the ball and prevented A1 from releasing it on a try; if that is the case, then the correct ruling is a Held Ball (HB).


Play #2: I need more information. Did A1 bobble the ball while still in contact with floor or was he already airborne? This could be a HTBT play.


Play #3: B1 having his hand firmly on the ball does not necessarily mean that a HB has occured. Example: A1 is holding the ball in front of himself using both hands (one on each side of the ball), B1 is defending A1 and places his right hand firmly on top of the ball; this is not a HB. Again, this is probably a HTBT play.

You don't in any of them.

MTD, Sr.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Play #2: I need more information. Did A1 bobble the ball while still in contact with floor or was he already airborne? This could be a HTBT play.

You don't in any of them.

MTD, Sr.

Yes, he gathered the ball on the floor, bobbled while taking his first step, regained control & scored.

Let him live & die in all cases, thanks!

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by tref

Yes, he gathered the ball on the floor, bobbled while taking his first step, regained control & scored.

Let him live & die in all cases, thanks!

Can't travel unless you're holding the ball (one exception noted) so this is just an "ugly".....but not a travel.

But, I'm not going to offer input on my partner's call on this one since it is a judgement about whether and when the player was in control/holding the ball.

As for the the others...

#1, if the official had a "cap" worthy of a held ball, the official should call it....otherwise stay out of it. The partner may be getting it wrong, technically, but this is not the kind of play that I want to get involved in on the court. We can talk about it later....for all I know, he/she saw it completely differently than I did.

#3 The Trail will have to deal this on their own. I have no business watching a trap that is 40-50 feet from me.....in fact, I once had a partner, as lead and across the court on the endline, make a call (not traveling or held ball) from a similar position when I was the trail and under 10 feet from the play with a perfect angle and he was 100% wrong. The coach let him know...and, after the game, I let him know.

[JugglingReferee]

1. Could be. Is it a held ball or did B knock the ball loose?
2. Need more info.
3. Likely not. I see no indication of undue roughness.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by tref

1. A1 jumps to attempt a layup, B1 caps the ball up high. The ball comes loose while both players are in the air, on the way down A1 regains control of the ball, then lands. The official calls travelling. Coach & fans go nutz & you have a great look.

2. A1 drives to the basket, gathers the ball then bobbles it & completes the layup. Official calls travel on the team that is up by 15+ & nobody says boo, but you have a great look.

3. A1 trapped by B1 & B2 just beyond the timeline in a pressing transition situation, the T has backs & butts. From L you clearly see B1 has a hand firmly on the ball. A1 moves his feet beyond the prescribed limits as B1 still has the ball. The T calls travel. Coach & fans go nutz & you have a great look.

In which of these win or go home game situations do you provide information to the calling official?

1st situation I definitely offer information.

2nd situation I'm staying clear

3rd situation if I'm close enough to sell that I had a great look, then I would offer information. If for some reason I'm long distance, I leave it alone.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Toren

1st situation I definitely offer information.

2nd situation I'm staying clear

3rd situation if I'm close enough to sell that I had a great look, then I would offer information. If for some reason I'm long distance, I leave it alone.

Play #1: Judgement call; stay away and discuss the rule at half time or after game.

Play #3: Judgment call; stay away and discuss the play at half time or after game. See my original post.

In any case, they are all judgement calls, so stay out of it. Remember: a) Stay true to your line; b) Officiate your Primary; and c) Trust your Partner(s).

MTD, Sr.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Play #1: Judgement call; stay away and discuss the rule at half time or after game.

Play #3: Judgment call; stay away and discuss the play at half time or after game. See my original post.

In any case, they are all judgement calls, so stay out of it. Remember: a) Stay true to your line; b) Officiate your Primary; and c) Trust your Partner(s).

MTD, Sr.

I was picturing play #1 in the middle of the lane. In this case, I'm coming to get a held ball.

I misread #3 as if I was the C. I would never come over as the L in situation #3. Sorry for the confusion.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Play #1: Judgement call; stay away and discuss the rule at half time or after game.

Play #3: Judgment call; stay away and discuss the play at half time or after game. See my original post.

In any case, they are all judgement calls, so stay out of it. Remember: a) Stay true to your line; b) Officiate your Primary; and c) Trust your Partner(s).

MTD, Sr.

1989 mind-set

PCA means PRIMARY COVERAGE AREA not EXCLUSIVE COVERAGE AREA & if its your PRIMARY its probably someone elses SECONDARY.

TRUST YOUR PARTNERS but help em out when they are staightlined, when they dont position adjust, when they're looking where they shouldn't be & get the damn play right!

Nobody is losing by 1 point in my games because of the IC plays I described.
Talking about it after the game may help the official (who doesnt belong on the court this time of year if they dont know those basics) but it doesnt do justice to the GAME or the participants involved in the 1 point loss.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by tref

Nobody is losing by 1 point in my games because of the IC plays I described.

Major problem with your thinking here. It is not YOUR game!

Originally Posted by tref

Talking about it after the game may help the official (who doesnt belong on the court this time of year if they dont know those basics) but it doesnt do justice to the GAME or the participants involved in the 1 point loss.

Might be a true statement, but this isn't for you to decide. Officials receive postseason assignments for all sorts of reasons. That is for those who are responsible for the assignment making or the design of the selection process. If those people don't like the decisions which certain officials make, then it is up to them to change who they select or the process itself. It is not the job of any one official working the contest to go over-rule the decisions of other officials on the court. Unfortunately, that seems to be the path that you have followed.
You can't officiate the whole court. There is a reason that basketball games are not assigned with only one official.
What about plays that are unseen by you during the contest? You need to learn to let others make decisions even if you don't like them. You don't get to make every call. That's just the way it is.

[MD Longhorn]

To Nevada: +1
To Tref - no offense sir, but there's a word used for officials that assume their calls from far away and out of position are automatically better than calls from his partner(s) from close up and IN position... That word is "arrogant". (And at least around here, another phrase that fits is "short career".)

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by tref

1989 mind-set

PCA means PRIMARY COVERAGE AREA not EXCLUSIVE COVERAGE AREA & if its your PRIMARY its probably someone elses SECONDARY.

TRUST YOUR PARTNERS but help em out when they are staightlined, when they dont position adjust, when they're looking where they shouldn't be & get the damn play right!

Nobody is losing by 1 point in my games because of the IC plays I described.
Talking about it after the game may help the official (who doesnt belong on the court this time of year if they dont know those basics) but it doesnt do justice to the GAME or the participants involved in the 1 point loss.

Tref:

1989 mind set!! Listen up whippersnapper! I have forgotten more about basketball officiating and still know more than you do about basketball officiating. You do not know the first thing about basketball officiating. You don't know difference between officiating your PCA and officiating Off Ball outside of your PCA. If you and I were on the same officiating crew and you tried to pull that horse manure with me, I would rip you a new tuchus at halftime.

MTD, Sr.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Tref:

1989 mind set!! Listen up whippersnapper! I have forgotten more about basketball officiating and still know more than you do about basketball officiating.

MTD, Sr. ftw.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Tref:

1989 mind set!! Listen up whippersnapper! I have forgotten more about basketball officiating and still know more than you do about basketball officiating. You do not know the first thing about basketball officiating. You don't know difference between officiating your PCA and officiating Off Ball outside of your PCA. If you and I were on the same officiating crew and you tried to pull that horse manure with me, I would rip you a new tuchus at halftime.

MTD, Sr.

1. You never seen me work, so you're assumption of my abilities means nothing to me.
2. I would never be on any court with you as I have already graduated from your brand of basketball.

As for you doing anything to me physically... you really don't want to be labelled as an internt thug, do ya?? If you were talking verbally, I'd simply walk away as I do with most old timers that haven't camped in over a decade

[APG]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Tref:

1989 mind set!! Listen up whippersnapper! I have forgotten more about basketball officiating and still know more than you do about basketball officiating. You do not know the first thing about basketball officiating. You don't know difference between officiating your PCA and officiating Off Ball outside of your PCA. If you and I were on the same officiating crew and you tried to pull that horse manure with me, I would rip you a new tuchus at halftime.

MTD, Sr.

I'm sorry, but LOL @ this...this smacks of a partner that NEVER, EVER wants an official to call in his primary area.