Incorrect travel

[tref]

1. A1 jumps to attempt a layup, B1 caps the ball up high. The ball comes loose while both players are in the air, on the way down A1 regains control of the ball, then lands. The official calls travelling. Coach & fans go nutz & you have a great look.

2. A1 drives to the basket, gathers the ball then bobbles it & completes the layup. Official calls travel on the team that is up by 15+ & nobody says boo, but you have a great look.

3. A1 trapped by B1 & B2 just beyond the timeline in a pressing transition situation, the T has backs & butts. From L you clearly see B1 has a hand firmly on the ball. A1 moves his feet beyond the prescribed limits as B1 still has the ball. The T calls travel. Coach & fans go nutz & you have a great look.

In which of these win or go home game situations do you provide information to the calling official?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by tref

1. A1 jumps to attempt a layup, B1 caps the ball up high. The ball comes loose while both players are in the air, on the way down A1 regains control of the ball, then lands. The official calls travelling. Coach & fans go nutz & you have a great look.

2. A1 drives to the basket, gathers the ball then bobbles it & completes the layup. Official calls travel on the team that is up by 15+ & nobody says boo, but you have a great look.

3. A1 trapped by B1 & B2 just beyond the timeline in a pressing transition situation, the T has backs & butts. From L you clearly see B1 has a hand firmly on the ball. A1 moves his feet beyond the prescribed limits as B1 still has the ball. The T calls travel. Coach & fans go nutz & you have a great look.

In which of these win or go home game situations do you provide information to the calling official?

Play #1: I assume the word "cap" means that B1 placed his hand(s) on the ball and prevented A1 from releasing it on a try; if that is the case, then the correct ruling is a Held Ball (HB).


Play #2: I need more information. Did A1 bobble the ball while still in contact with floor or was he already airborne? This could be a HTBT play.


Play #3: B1 having his hand firmly on the ball does not necessarily mean that a HB has occured. Example: A1 is holding the ball in front of himself using both hands (one on each side of the ball), B1 is defending A1 and places his right hand firmly on top of the ball; this is not a HB. Again, this is probably a HTBT play.

You don't in any of them.

MTD, Sr.

[JugglingReferee]

1. Could be. Is it a held ball or did B knock the ball loose?
2. Need more info.
3. Likely not. I see no indication of undue roughness.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Play #2: I need more information. Did A1 bobble the ball while still in contact with floor or was he already airborne? This could be a HTBT play.

You don't in any of them.

MTD, Sr.

Yes, he gathered the ball on the floor, bobbled while taking his first step, regained control & scored.

Let him live & die in all cases, thanks!

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by tref

Yes, he gathered the ball on the floor, bobbled while taking his first step, regained control & scored.

Let him live & die in all cases, thanks!

Can't travel unless you're holding the ball (one exception noted) so this is just an "ugly".....but not a travel.

But, I'm not going to offer input on my partner's call on this one since it is a judgement about whether and when the player was in control/holding the ball.

As for the the others...

#1, if the official had a "cap" worthy of a held ball, the official should call it....otherwise stay out of it. The partner may be getting it wrong, technically, but this is not the kind of play that I want to get involved in on the court. We can talk about it later....for all I know, he/she saw it completely differently than I did.

#3 The Trail will have to deal this on their own. I have no business watching a trap that is 40-50 feet from me.....in fact, I once had a partner, as lead and across the court on the endline, make a call (not traveling or held ball) from a similar position when I was the trail and under 10 feet from the play with a perfect angle and he was 100% wrong. The coach let him know...and, after the game, I let him know.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by tref

1. A1 jumps to attempt a layup, B1 caps the ball up high. The ball comes loose while both players are in the air, on the way down A1 regains control of the ball, then lands. The official calls travelling. Coach & fans go nutz & you have a great look.

2. A1 drives to the basket, gathers the ball then bobbles it & completes the layup. Official calls travel on the team that is up by 15+ & nobody says boo, but you have a great look.

3. A1 trapped by B1 & B2 just beyond the timeline in a pressing transition situation, the T has backs & butts. From L you clearly see B1 has a hand firmly on the ball. A1 moves his feet beyond the prescribed limits as B1 still has the ball. The T calls travel. Coach & fans go nutz & you have a great look.

In which of these win or go home game situations do you provide information to the calling official?

1st situation I definitely offer information.

2nd situation I'm staying clear

3rd situation if I'm close enough to sell that I had a great look, then I would offer information. If for some reason I'm long distance, I leave it alone.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Toren

1st situation I definitely offer information.

2nd situation I'm staying clear

3rd situation if I'm close enough to sell that I had a great look, then I would offer information. If for some reason I'm long distance, I leave it alone.

Play #1: Judgement call; stay away and discuss the rule at half time or after game.

Play #3: Judgment call; stay away and discuss the play at half time or after game. See my original post.

In any case, they are all judgement calls, so stay out of it. Remember: a) Stay true to your line; b) Officiate your Primary; and c) Trust your Partner(s).

MTD, Sr.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Toren

1st situation I definitely offer information.

2nd situation I'm staying clear

3rd situation if I'm close enough to sell that I had a great look, then I would offer information. If for some reason I'm long distance, I leave it alone.

Yup, I did it just as you described yes on 1 & 3, no on 2.
Partners took the info & went held ball on both with no hesitation or "are you sure."

It's obvious that we are in the same area
They just dont hire 3 individuals out here, they hire a crew of 3.
I'm guessing our non-helpers would rather throw it in their partners face after the game as opposed to getting it right during the game... even in the play-offs

[Toren]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Play #1: Judgement call; stay away and discuss the rule at half time or after game.

Play #3: Judgment call; stay away and discuss the play at half time or after game. See my original post.

In any case, they are all judgement calls, so stay out of it. Remember: a) Stay true to your line; b) Officiate your Primary; and c) Trust your Partner(s).

MTD, Sr.

I was picturing play #1 in the middle of the lane. In this case, I'm coming to get a held ball.

I misread #3 as if I was the C. I would never come over as the L in situation #3. Sorry for the confusion.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by tref

Yup, I did it just as you described yes on 1 & 3, no on 2.
Partners took the info & went held ball on both with no hesitation or "are you sure."

It's obvious that we are in the same area
They just dont hire 3 individuals out here, they hire a crew of 3.
I'm guessing our non-helpers would rather throw it in their partners face after the game as opposed to getting it right during the game... even in the play-offs

Haha, that's funny cause I edited my answer. As the L, that's one hell of a long way to look to know with clarity that you had it right. That's why I'm staying away.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tref

I'm guessing our non-helpers would rather throw it in their partners face after the game as opposed to getting it right during the game... even in the play-offs

Frankly, that's a harsh judgment that's not warranted.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Play #1: Judgement call; stay away and discuss the rule at half time or after game.

Play #3: Judgment call; stay away and discuss the play at half time or after game. See my original post.

In any case, they are all judgement calls, so stay out of it. Remember: a) Stay true to your line; b) Officiate your Primary; and c) Trust your Partner(s).

MTD, Sr.

1989 mind-set

PCA means PRIMARY COVERAGE AREA not EXCLUSIVE COVERAGE AREA & if its your PRIMARY its probably someone elses SECONDARY.

TRUST YOUR PARTNERS but help em out when they are staightlined, when they dont position adjust, when they're looking where they shouldn't be & get the damn play right!

Nobody is losing by 1 point in my games because of the IC plays I described.
Talking about it after the game may help the official (who doesnt belong on the court this time of year if they dont know those basics) but it doesnt do justice to the GAME or the participants involved in the 1 point loss.

[Raymond]

Same question for #1 and #2. Who made the call (T, L, C) and who had the great look (T, L, C)?

For #3 I don't see how T can have ALL backs and butts and how the Lead can see play so clearly and easily. Definitely would leave #3 alone.

Originally Posted by tref

1. A1 jumps to attempt a layup, B1 caps the ball up high. The ball comes loose while both players are in the air, on the way down A1 regains control of the ball, then lands. The official calls travelling. Coach & fans go nutz & you have a great look.

2. A1 drives to the basket, gathers the ball then bobbles it & completes the layup. Official calls travel on the team that is up by 15+ & nobody says boo, but you have a great look.

3. A1 trapped by B1 & B2 just beyond the timeline in a pressing transition situation, the T has backs & butts. From L you clearly see B1 has a hand firmly on the ball. A1 moves his feet beyond the prescribed limits as B1 still has the ball. The T calls travel. Coach & fans go nutz & you have a great look.

In which of these win or go home game situations do you provide information to the calling official?

[tref]

Originally Posted by Toren

Haha, that's funny cause I edited my answer. As the L, that's one hell of a long way to look to know with clarity that you had it right. That's why I'm staying away.

Pressing transition situation remember? Sorry but I dont stand on the endline in ther f/c while all 10 players & my partners are in the backcourt. By the time the offense achieved f/c status I still was not on the endline as no players were below the 3 point line.

This play was on the opposite sideline & opened up to tableside. The entire bench & grandma in the 19th row could see the defenders hand on the inside of the ball pulling the offense forward into a travel. Instead of the T position adjusting by stepping up & onto the court he got stuck in the mud & called a travel.
Tea would definitely had to have been served up if WE didnt get this play right. And I hate whacking on top of incorrect calls!!!

Do whats right for the game, dont let positioning deter you from offering assistance on an OBVIOUS incorrect call.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Frankly, that's a harsh judgment that's not warranted.

Perhaps, but you did read post #7. Frankly, if you arent going to help me with an incorrect call when there's something I can do about it, then dont bring it up in the lockerroom.
I can see waiting to discuss judgment on a ticky tack foul call because there is nothing we can do at the point. But we can fix incorrect violation rulings.

I'm glad the committee that passes us through from week 1 to week 2 dont have the same old school mindset as some Forum members. I was told those were good help situations from the guys that gave me games this week.

[tref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Same question for #1 and #2. Who made the call (T, L, C) and who had the great look (T, L, C)?

For #3 I don't see how T can have ALL backs and butts and how the Lead can see play so clearly and easily. Definitely would leave #3 alone.

L goes against the pregame & calls the above the rim play a travel. I was T & told him what I & just about everybody else in the gym saw.

I described #3 clearly a couple times already. No players in the f/c on this pressing transitions situation... what am I to do stand 94' away & wait for em to head my way? OR go find the next matchup?