erroneously canceling or counting....

[ronny mulkey]

Guys,

Wasn't my game, but I have a partner tonight who was on this game. Three times in one game, supposedly he missed the a last second shot play. So, that got me to thinking:

Just before the half, you have last second shot responsibility. You think the shot clearly left the shooter's hand before the horn. You count it, conduct usual halftime check with table and run into the dressing room. In the dressing room both partners CONVINCE you that you missed the call.

Question 1 - how would you go about changing your call?
Question 2 - Is this covered by the 5th correctable error and are you within the timeframe
Question 3 - How would you try to handle if this was between quarter 1 and 2?
Question 4 - End of game situation where it determines a winner
Question 5 - How would you pre-game this situation

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

Question 1 - how would you go about changing your call?
Question 2 - Is this covered by the 5th correctable error and are you within the timeframe
Question 3 - How would you try to handle if this was between quarter 1 and 2?
Question 4 - End of game situation where it determines a winner
Question 5 - How would you pre-game this situation

1 - Go out after the half and notify both coaches and update the book since this still falls within the CE timeframe.

2 - Yes and yes.

3 - Same way.

4 - Once you leave the confines of the court that's it.

5 - Pregame that if there is disagreement we need to get together and get it right NOW, not in the locker room.

[stosh]

I wouldn't have left the floor until I have concurrence from my partners. If they want to CONVINCE me I'm wrong, we do it on the floor before the half (or worse yet, GAME) ends.

In OP the word "think" is a red flag. If I "think" it was a good shot, my partner better come to me with the word "know" in his/her advice; I am not looking for a second opinion, but for a "fact". That's what I would discuss during pre-game.

[tref]

I'd like to see this corrected during the dead ball time between quarters. We dont need to be in the lockerroom to say we got something wrong. Get it right before leaving the floor.

Running off the court between halves too?

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by tref

Running off the court between halves too?

No, I moonwalk off like I learned at a camp somewhere.

[ronny mulkey]

Tref,

Wasn't really in a hurry. Did halftime table check and retrieved jackets, then left court. Just trying to convey that in this play, the officials were in the dressing room when the discussion took place.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by stosh

I wouldn't have left the floor until I have concurrence from my partners. If they want to CONVINCE me I'm wrong, we do it on the floor before the half (or worse yet, GAME) ends.

In OP the word "think" is a red flag. If I "think" it was a good shot, my partner better come to me with the word "know" in his/her advice; I am not looking for a second opinion, but for a "fact". That's what I would discuss during pre-game.

As the calling official, I'm not going to ask my partners if they have a different opinion than mine. I'm counting or waving, and unless they approach me immediately, I'm not making the change.

As others have said, "pregame."

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by tref

...
Running off the court between halves too?

Run, walk,or crawl you still can correct at the start of the 2nd half.

[tref]

True BNR, I just prefer to fix it before leaving the court. Too much speculation comes about when we change scores after the half has ended. I mean, did the partners need that much time to think about?

Had a packed 2nd round game last Friday night & when the home team fans rushed the court, I jogged off

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by tref

True BNR, I just prefer to fix it before leaving the court. Too much speculation comes about when we change scores after the half has ended. I mean, did the partners need that much time to think about?

Had a packed 2nd round game last Friday night & when the home team fans rushed the court, I jogged off

Ideally it would be discussed right away before going to the table. But I've seen it where a guy didn't question himself until he was in the locker room.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by tref

True BNR, I just prefer to fix it before leaving the court. Too much speculation comes about when we change scores after the half has ended. I mean, did the partners need that much time to think about?

Had a packed 2nd round game last Friday night & when the home team fans rushed the court, I jogged off

I'm not positive why it matters whether we correct before we enter the locker room or after. In either case, at halftime, the teams have probably left the court, so you still gotta explain it to the coaches when they return and the speculation will still be there from them.

How did you like the jog? Were you a long way away from the exit and therefore a jog was more appropriate or were you at the close exit and just did the cowardly thing

[billyu2]

I don't believe this, by definition, is a correctable error situation. What rule was set aside that resulted in erroneously counting/cancelling a score? This was a judgement call by the official responsible for the shot and in that respect, if the official was sure of his call, I agree with Snaqwells. Now if the official had any doubt then he would confer with his partners before counting or cancelling and before leaving the floor.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Toren

I'm not positive why it matters whether we correct before we enter the locker room or after. In either case, at halftime, the teams have probably left the court, so you still gotta explain it to the coaches when they return and the speculation will still be there from them.

How did you like the jog? Were you a long way away from the exit and therefore a jog was more appropriate or were you at the close exit and just did the cowardly thing

Not worried about explaining an erroneously counted basket to coaches, it is what it is.
I just prefer to fix mistakes immediately rather than 10 minutes later. No coaches/players/fans/observers/haters can say we conspired to fix the half-time spread on the underground HS wagering scene. Many biased parties already say we cheat, why open the door to more criticism by coming out to start the 2nd half by deducting points??

That being said, I'm never saying never. It could be done to begin the 3rdQ as it is within the CE time limits, but I would prefer to handle it as we retrieve jackets & switch the arrow & confirm that the book & board match. Lot of opportunity to make it right on the court.

I was the L on the south end & when I saw only 2 police officiers & the white out that used to be in the stands was closing down on the court, I had to get! Felt the same as any other time I've jogged.

* Never said I dont jog ever, just that it isnt a routine departure for me. Gotta feeling I'll be jogging off again tonight...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by billyu2

I don't believe this, by definition, is a correctable error situation. What rule was set aside that resulted in erroneously counting/cancelling a score? This was a judgement call by the official responsible for the shot and in that respect, if the official was sure of his call, I agree with Snaqwells. Now if the official had any doubt then he would confer with his partners before counting or cancelling and before leaving the floor.

I agree, this is not erroneously awarding a basket. That would be like calling a 3 a two. Then you decide that you did not give the proper points and then come back and allow it to be a 3. This is clearly a judgment call and if the basket counts or not is not just making a mistake.

For the record if we go into the locker room, it is too late to change something IMO.

Peace

[tref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I agree, this is not erroneously awarding a basket. That would be like calling a 3 a two. Then you decide that you did not give the proper points and then come back and allow it to be a 3. This is clearly a judgment call and if the basket counts or not is not just making a mistake.

For the record if we go into the locker room, it is too late to change something IMO.

Peace

So we count a basket that shouldnt have counted as in the OP, but its the end of !stQ. When is it too late to correct an officials mistake?