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Simply put, did the defender have a legal position (in the path) at the time the opponent jumped? Yes or No. If they did (in the path), then they satisfied the rule. There is nothing in the rule that says they can no longer move once they have position. "Guarding is the act of legally placing the body in the path of an offensive opponent."The rule mentions nothing about landing spots....it is all about being in the path. If they are not in the path, they do not have legal position and any movement to get in the path of an airborne opponent would be illegal. The case play being cited to counter this is not relevant...that case is implying the player is not in the path and moves to a new position that puts them in the path after the opponent is airborne. It is not talking about moving in the same path and direction....which is what we have here. Check out this case.... 10.6.1 SITUATION C: B1 is standing behind the plane of the backboard before A1 jumps for a lay-up shot. The forward momentum causes airborne shooter A1 to charge into B1. RULING: B1 is entitled to the position obtained legally before A1 left the floor..... However, if B1 moves into the path of A1 after A1 has left the floor, the foul is on B1. .... (4-19-1, 6; 6-7-4; 10 Penalty 2, 5a) Hmmm...sounds like "path" is the key.
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For the timing yes, but the action being restricted is moving INTO THE PATH....not all movement.
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In the first part of the case play, B1 was in A1's path too, it's just that it was deemed legal because he was there before A1 left the floor. Camron, I know you like to argue, er, discuss, ( ![]()
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The rule is clear that timing of entry to the path is all that matters. There is nothing in the rule or any case play that prohibits movement. No one has yet shown any rule or case that says anything close to it being a foul for a player who is legally in the path before the opponent is airborne to then move away from their opponent. You're adding your own requirements above what the rule requires to get to that conclusion.
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Owner/Developer of RefTown.com Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association Last edited by Camron Rust; Thu Feb 23, 2012 at 02:01am. |
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Please quote me 4-23-4(b), and 4-23-5(d), and tell me why those were listed separately from 4-23-3, if airborne players were not to be treated any different than other players when it comes to LGP?
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4-23-4b and 4-23-5d deal with obtaining LGP. ".......the guard must have obtained legal position before the opponent left the floor." In the situation at hand the guard had met this requirement. Any movement away from his airborne opponent does not make his position illegal.
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I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum. It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow. Lonesome Dove |
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Owner/Developer of RefTown.com Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association |
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A1 is airborne. Did B1 move? Yes. Did B1 take a position "on that path" (your words, not mine)? Yes. According to your own post, this is not legal. |
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Are you saying that because B1 moved, this turns into a blocking foul on B1? (I'm about two steps away from breaking out stick figure images to see if we can illustrate these points any better...)
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Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there. - Will Rogers Last edited by Welpe; Thu Feb 23, 2012 at 11:41am. |
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That I can see but I'm having a hard time seeing a block if A1 was already going to contact B1.
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Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there. - Will Rogers |
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Don't get too hung up on "what might've happened". Let's say A1 is dribbling full speed into the lane, right at B1. B1, seeing A1 outweighs him by 40 lbs., decides to step out of the way at the last moment, but then grabs A1 on the arm as he goes by. Do you still feel bad calling a foul on B1, even though A1 was definitely going to make contact before B1 moved?
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I see your point but the difference in this case is that if A1 was already going to land on B1, B1's stepping back does not change that fact. I cannot see how A1 was disadvantaged or put at any greater risk by B1's action and I do not believe that is the intent of the rule.
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Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there. - Will Rogers |
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You have to stop thinking about it in these terms. It is completely and 100% irrelevant what it was GOING to be. It only matters what it IS. And what it IS is a defender who moves to a spot in A1's path after A1 is airborne. So the defender IS responsible for the contact.
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