T and the flop

cmathews · #1 (**permalink**) Sun Dec 05, 2004, 04:53pm

I haven't done it yet...but I talked to a guy in our association that called 2 T's for flops in the first game of the year.....Both were on the coaches sons....the coach didn't say a word, the official was being evaluated....and the evaluator said "it is a point of emphasis this year. You didn't hesitate, nice job"

AirForceDude · #2 (**permalink**) Sun Dec 05, 2004, 06:28pm

There have been a few threads on this in the past month, most comments seem to be leaning toward ignoring the act or calling a block. I, on the otherhand, think it's a POE for a good reason (probably safety & unsporting conduct) and if officials call it early in the season it won't be a problem all year.

Much like running out of bounds to get around the defense/offense, call it as few times and it will go away.

cmathews · #3 (**permalink**) Sun Dec 05, 2004, 06:34pm

I agree airforcedude...but it has to be a flop of pretty epic proportions before I have a whistle....

Nevadaref · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 08, 2004, 05:49am

A friend of mine called it tonight. As far as I know it is the first one this year here.

LarryS · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 08, 2004, 08:15am

We have been told by our chapter to avoid the T at all cost. One of the top officials in the chapter said he had two borderline flops early in a game from the trail position he told that team's coach "Man, that last play was almost a flop...I'd hate to have to T up a player". As soon as that team got the ball, coach called a 30...no more acting took place for the rest of the game.

Sounds like a excellent example of preventative officiating.

Robmoz · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 08, 2004, 11:41am

Quote:

Originally posted by LarryS

We have been told by our chapter to avoid the T at all cost. One of the top officials in the chapter said he had two borderline flops early in a game from the trail position he told that team's coach "Man, that last play was almost a flop...I'd hate to have to T up a player". As soon as that team got the ball, coach called a 30...no more acting took place for the rest of the game.

Sounds like a excellent example of preventative officiating.

At all cost? Wow, do they have you ignore very many other rules at all cost?

If its a flop its a flop, I don't buy the idea of "borderline flop". Why should we be so afraid to call this especially since its a POE, so it must be a big problem or concern for such focus.

Also, it was early in the game what better time to call this? It may have been preventative but I don't offer a coach a warning for many things that could lead to a T why should I start with this?

Be a pioneer! It only hurts for a little while.

South GA BBall Ref · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 14, 2004, 08:16am

I haven't had to call one this year yet, but my thoughts are as follows: If the flop causes unwarranted contact to the offensive player, then "T" him/her. A reminder to the coaches in pre-game will help to inform coaches of the possible "T" and help to prevent having to call one.

ronny mulkey · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 14, 2004, 08:50am

Stamper will be all over your *** if you call this and you know it...

Jurassic Referee · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 14, 2004, 09:40am

Quote:

Originally posted by South GA BBall Ref
I haven't had to call one this year yet, but my thoughts are as follows: If the flop causes unwarranted contact to the offensive player, then "T" him/her. A reminder to the coaches in pre-game will help to inform coaches of the possible "T" and help to prevent having to call one.

If it's "unwarranted contact", then you have a personal foul of some type, by rule. "T"s are non-contact live-ball fouls. Flopping is an unsporting "T".

gordon30307 · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 14, 2004, 10:37am

Quote:

Originally posted by South GA BBall Ref
I haven't had to call one this year yet, but my thoughts are as follows: If the flop causes unwarranted contact to the offensive player, then "T" him/her. A reminder to the coaches in pre-game will help to inform coaches of the possible "T" and help to prevent having to call one.

I don't think you should discuss what you will or won't call in a pregame. The first time you or your partner "pass on something" or simply miss it you will get an earfull from the coach. The coach is expected to know the rules and points of emphasis. As my Dad used to say "Don't look for trouble. Trouble will soon find you." Just my opinion.

Junker · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 14, 2004, 10:46am

The general concensus around here is to warn first and then call the T. I had a kid Friday night do the textbook flop (no contact, gave me a "oomph!" and threw his hands in the air as he fell with no contact whatsoever. I went to the coach on the next dead ball and him that it was a point of emphasis, he asked for the kid's number and talked to him about it. Didn't see it again for the rest of the night. I'm glad I didn't throw the T as it was a tight game throughout and it ended up the flopper's team won by 2.

LarryS · #12 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 14, 2004, 10:49am

Quote:

Originally posted by Robmoz

Quote:

Originally posted by LarryS

We have been told by our chapter to avoid the T at all cost. One of the top officials in the chapter said he had two borderline flops early in a game from the trail position he told that team's coach "Man, that last play was almost a flop...I'd hate to have to T up a player". As soon as that team got the ball, coach called a 30...no more acting took place for the rest of the game.

Sounds like a excellent example of preventative officiating.

At all cost? Wow, do they have you ignore very many other rules at all cost?

If its a flop its a flop, I don't buy the idea of "borderline flop". Why should we be so afraid to call this especially since its a POE, so it must be a big problem or concern for such focus.

Also, it was early in the game what better time to call this? It may have been preventative but I don't offer a coach a warning for many things that could lead to a T why should I start with this?

Be a pioneer! It only hurts for a little while.

Robmoz,

I think you know what they mean. Do some preventative officiating or call a block a couple of times. They will stop. Besides, do you really want to be the only officail making a certian call in your area? If every other official is successful at stopping the flop without whacking the player do you think it is a career enhancer for you to need the T to accomplish the same end?

You also said you "don't offer a coach a warnings for many things that could lead to a T why should I start with this?"

A coach chirping about calls could lead to a T...do you use a stop sign or comment to let him/her know you've heard enough?

Straying out of the coaches box toward the baseline could lead to a T...you dont suggest he stay in the box?

Stepping onto the floor a little in a loud gym so a player can hear his instruction could lead to a T...you don't suggest they need to stay back?

I would much rather warn a coach they are getting close to the line versus letting them step across and whacking them...but that is just me.

Mark Dexter · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 14, 2004, 11:27am

I worry about this POE, especially with judging what a flop is. While there are clearly Oscar-worthy performances out there (no offensive player within 10 feet, goes down and screams louder than Navirtilova) I'd hate go get a call wrong (maybe the kid did get pushed down, but I got screened and thought it was a total flop) and penalize a player who had just gone to the floor. I tend to agree that the best thing to do is talk players through this.