T for the flop

Junker · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 21, 2005, 11:41pm

Well everyone, I've now seen a T called on a flop firsthand. I had to do it tonight. Two really good sophmore teams. Toward the end of the first quarter my partner gave an official warning to the visiting team about flopping. I was actually going to go talk to the coach during the quarter break because his one of his players (#5) flopped to the floor as a player dribbled 2 feet to his side. Everyone in the gym hears and knows what my partner is warning the coach about. Fast forward to the third quarter. Fast break, I'm going to lead in very good position. Visitor #5 starts to go down 3 steps before the offensive player got there. I came as strong as I could with the T instantly. If I hadn't, the home crowd would have gone nuts as everyone knew they were warned (do I sound like I'm justifying?). Visitors coach of course hated the call. I had a pretty good working relationship with him all night. I let him vent for a second, assured him that his player was going down LONG before the offensive player was there and we played on. Visitor ended up winning by 2. My partner T'd a home assistant coach with 20 seconds left and home down by 2. How was everyone else's night?

BktBallRef · #2 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 22, 2005, 12:06am

Mine sucked!

Girls game - We had the most undisciplined team that our association covers, at their place. A senior guard on the team is the worst. I think I've stuck her every time I've seen her since she was a sophomore.

Visitors have a 6'4" girl. They're triple teaming her without the ball! About 2 minutes into the game, (you aren't going to believe this!) I notice that one of the three players is olding her hands directly in front of the irls eyes. I've never seen it before. At the next break, I went to the head coach, explained that it was illegal and that the next time it happened, I wouldn't hesitate to call the T. They called a TO and cleaned it up.

But it went downhill from there. 1 T on the asst. coach, 2 on players, and 1 on the bench when we were unsure which sub made the comment.

Boys game - We meet the coaches separately here. The visiting coach comments about the poor sportsmanship in the girls game when we ask him to help us promote good sportmanship. We agree and tell him that we aren't going to have a repeat performance. 2 minutes into the game, I whistle a foul on his PG. He turns and screams at me, "I didn't touch him!!" WHACK! "I'm going to clean this up early," I say to myself. And we did. No more problems! It made the game better.

We still had to call a lot of illegal use fouls in the first half but we cleaned it up for the second. Home team, down 1 with under 10 seconds left, guard drives, CRASH! PC! L nails it. We go home 3 seconds later.

So it ended a helluva lot better than it started.

JugglingReferee · #3 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 22, 2005, 12:39am

When I see a T on the flop, I hope for a straight flush.

[Edited by JugglingReferee on Jan 22nd, 2005 at 12:49 AM]

tjones1 · #4 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 22, 2005, 12:52am

Quote:

Originally posted by JugglingReferee
When I see a T on the flop, I hope for a straight flush.

[Edited by JugglingReferee on Jan 22nd, 2005 at 12:49 AM]

rainmaker · #5 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 22, 2005, 01:52am

Quote:

Originally posted by Junker
How was everyone else's night?

Great night! Great game, great partner, great job, great results.

Band! We had a band! No cheerleaders, but it's still fun to have a band. And they played the national anthem which was very good. I'm tired of the Whitney Houston wannabes.

Undefeated team against third in league (home). Home coach was a chipper, but took the warnings. Undefeated team got beat royal. Partner had one great intentional call. I passed on one I should have gotten. Girls got emotional, but we kept them under control. Stands were full and noisy. Partner said at the end, "It was great working with you. You are really a varsity ref now!" I'm still glowing.

Yes, Howard, I'm having fun!!

Junker, thanks for asking.

SMEngmann · #6 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 22, 2005, 05:16am

Quote:

Originally posted by Junker
Well everyone, I've now seen a T called on a flop firsthand. I had to do it tonight. Two really good sophmore teams. Toward the end of the first quarter my partner gave an official warning to the visiting team about flopping. I was actually going to go talk to the coach during the quarter break because his one of his players (#5) flopped to the floor as a player dribbled 2 feet to his side. Everyone in the gym hears and knows what my partner is warning the coach about. Fast forward to the third quarter. Fast break, I'm going to lead in very good position. Visitor #5 starts to go down 3 steps before the offensive player got there. I came as strong as I could with the T instantly. If I hadn't, the home crowd would have gone nuts as everyone knew they were warned (do I sound like I'm justifying?). Visitors coach of course hated the call. I had a pretty good working relationship with him all night. I let him vent for a second, assured him that his player was going down LONG before the offensive player was there and we played on. Visitor ended up winning by 2. My partner T'd a home assistant coach with 20 seconds left and home down by 2. How was everyone else's night?

I also had a T for flopping this season. Home team up by 20 early 3rd in a BJV and the home team was dense, they only understood penalty. Early in the game I removed a player for an untucked shirt after the team had been warned 3 times, this finally solved the annoyance. Twice in the 1st half players clearly flopped, drawing warnings from both me and my partner. Early 3rd, home player attempts a contested 3, lands a foot away from visiting player and practically does a backflip and grunts, I hit him with the T and the coach didn't argue when I explained it.

stripes · #7 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 22, 2005, 09:55am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker

Quote:

Originally posted by Junker
How was everyone else's night?

Partner had one great intentional call. I passed on one I should have gotten.

How do you pass on an intentional foul? Did you just call a foul rather than an intentional?

cmathews · #8 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 22, 2005, 01:55pm

Sorry BBR sucky games are no fun....out here in Wyoming we had a good one to work, the score ended up being 15 for the visitors, ranked 2 in the state in the largest classification home team near the bottom...but no problems...got evaluated...went well...just had to gloat a little LOL...

Junker · #9 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 22, 2005, 02:34pm

The only good thing to come out of my game was that I did get a little TV time on the local news. First in my career. They were doing a report on the school I worked at because they had a brawl after a game on the road last week. I was in the background, calling an oob play. Nice mechanics if I do say so myself.

Mark Dexter · #10 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 22, 2005, 03:31pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JugglingReferee
When I see a T on the flop, I hope for a straight flush.

[Edited by JugglingReferee on Jan 22nd, 2005 at 12:49 AM]

I'm all in.

thumpferee · #11 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 22, 2005, 03:54pm

I have had 4 rediculously obvious flops in the last 4 games.

Sorry all, I just haven't had the nerve to call them a T. I know it's a POE this year, but I just can't justify calling it. I try and tell the player it is suppose to be a T by rule, I just hope they learn to play better defense instead of the theatrics.

I once told a player he should have gotten a T for that. One of his teammates said, "why? for flopping?" I said "No, for bad acting". Had a good laugh.

Nevadaref · #12 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 23, 2005, 06:47am

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
1 T on the asst. coach, 2 on players, and 1 on the bench when we were unsure which sub made the comment.

Tony,
Could we explore this a little more?

I'm of the opinion that EVERY technical foul on bench personnel has to be charged directly to some individual.
In other words, I don't believe that you can justify making it a team technical foul even though you are unsure who said it. I think that you have to pick someone over there and charge it to that person, which could be considered worse if you are incorrect.
Although, I actually do happen to share your philosophy somewhat. That behavior can't be overlooked just because the official isn't sure of the specific offender. I would just like to see the soccer policy adopted.
(In soccer the NFHS specifically put in a rule that the coach gets the card if the referee can't determine which bench member made the comment.)
But I don't believe that our current NFHS Basketball Rules Book supports the decision your crew made.

bob jenkins · #13 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 23, 2005, 12:51pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
1 T on the asst. coach, 2 on players, and 1 on the bench when we were unsure which sub made the comment.

Tony,
Could we explore this a little more?

I'm of the opinion that EVERY technical foul on bench personnel has to be charged directly to some individual.

10.4.1D would imply that your opinion is incorrect. And, while that play (multiple infractions charged to no individual) doesn't directly deal with Tony's play (a single infraction by an unknown individual), I think it points in theright direction.

SouthGARef · #14 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 23, 2005, 01:03pm

Had my worst game of the year last night. Girls JV went 92 minutes. 23 jump balls. 46 fouls. All were there.

The boys game went well. I'm still of the opinion that JV girls basketball should be outlawed in most states.

Jurassic Referee · #15 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 23, 2005, 01:51pm

Quote:

Originally posted by SouthGARef
Had my worst game of the year last night. Girls JV went 92 minutes.

You don't really mean 92 actual game-time minutes, do you? That would mean 15 4-minute overtimes. If the total time to play the games was an hour and a half though, that ain't that bad for girls JV.