1 and 1 flop

[rgaudreau]

Okay, so here's what happened at yesterday's game. I'm a rookie and I think I called it incorrectly, but at the time, it seemed like the right thing to do. AFter thinking about it since then, I probably would have done things differently.

Girls Juvenile game (13-14 years old)
A1 is up shooting a bonus 1 and 1. shot is taken, hits the rim. A2 catches the ball and just stands there with it. None of the girls are moving and don't seem to realize that it's now live ball. A2 throws the ball at Lead who is standing OOB at baseline and Lead (another rookie) catches it. Lead drops the ball (inbounds) expecting play to continue. I tweet. Here's the call that I made. SInce none of the teams made and attempt to play the ball, I went to alternating possesion arrow.

But now, in hindsight, here's what I would have done. AFter the ball was thrown by A1 to lead who was OOB, it should have been dead ball, thrown OOB by A1 - B's ball at the baseline.

So, I know I blew the initial call, but I think that my hindsight would be correct. Man, so many rules to this game! Your comments are welcome...

Ren
P.S. It's nice to have a place like this to come and read all of these scenarios. The discussions here are always great. It's never done in a condescending way. We are all trying to become better at something we all love to do.

[BktBallRef]

If the lead was standing OOB, then A2 caused the ball to go OOB. B's ball, spot throw-in.

[Dan_ref]

Ren, these games (sub varsity, even sub JV) are by far
*the* absolute toughest to work, and girls games are even
tougher. Anything can & will happen, which is exactly why
rookies need to work them. When you finally move up to the
varsity list there will be nothing you would not have seen
already (well, mostly!). Hang in there, keep learning, have
fun!

[bigwhistle]

Ren,

Good job recognizing that you had made a mistake, even though it was later that you figured it out. Part of the problem in your game was that your scheduler put you in a very bad situation.

If at all possible, try to request that you not work with any other rookies this season. You should be in a learning situation with someone who has been there to fix such problems as this one.

That being said, and knowing that it ain't gonna happen, learn as much as you can so that you will be the one able to fix the problems of your partners.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by bigwhistle
Ren,

Good job recognizing that you had made a mistake, even though it was later that you figured it out. Part of the problem in your game was that your scheduler put you in a very bad situation.

If at all possible, try to request that you not work with any other rookies this season. You should be in a learning situation with someone who has been there to fix such problems as this one.

That being said, and knowing that it ain't gonna happen, learn as much as you can so that you will be the one able to fix the problems of your partners.

Why? Two rookies can be very educational and help one of the other take a leadership role. The only way an official is going to get better is when they learn to handle situations that they are not used to. It is not my job as a veteran to hold the hand of a rookie. That is how they learn. I do what I can, but that is not my job.

BTW, this was only a lower level game. It was not like it was a varsity playoff game. If a rookie cannot handle that, then they have no business on the court in the first place. I would agree with you if this was both of their first game ever in their entire life, but it does not seem like this was the problem. The problem was that he did not know what to do and that was the problem.

Just a thought.

Peace

[mick]

Originally posted by rgaudreau
A2 catches the ball and just stands there with it. None of the girls are moving and don't seem to realize that it's now live ball. A2 throws the ball at Lead who is standing OOB at baseline and Lead (another rookie) catches it. Lead drops the ball (inbounds) expecting play to continue

Ren,
Think back and consider whether, or not, your partner was clear with the one-and-one signal before administering the ball.
Also, early in the season at that level, I have often found myself asking the players on the lane if they know what a one-and-one free throw actually is.
Sometimes, at that level, we find ourselves being a little more instructional for the players' benefit.
Have fun.
mick

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by JRutledge

Why? Two rookies can be very educational and help one of the other take a leadership role. The only way an official is going to get better is when they learn to handle situations that they are not used to. It is not my job as a veteran to hold the hand of a rookie. That is how they learn. I do what I can, but that is not my job.

No matter what level the game is, the kids deserve better than two guys who are still learning the ropes. There's a lot that can go wrong with two rookies on the floor. Lots of situations that they won't be able to handle from a rules standpoint. The case in point is a perfect example.

There's nothing wrong with taking a leadership role but there's a reason that they don't privates in charge of armies. Young officials should be paired with a more experienced partner. You didn't learn everything that you know on your own and neither did anyone else. We need to mentor young officials and give back to the game. If you don't care to do that, that's fine. But there's a huge need for it.

[rgaudreau]

I think the assignor`s intention was to have me ref a low-level game, in the hopes of gaining more experience.

We DO have a pretty good mentoring program here. Actually, our officials association is booming and we are bringing in a lot of new blood. We are training younger kids and having them ref intramural basketball in order to prepare them for league play.

In my case, something went awry. We were both rookies (not my first game, but not my 10th either).

All I know is that, as a coach, I`ve gained a whole new respect for officials. There are a few coaches from our league who have tried officiating this year and we`ve all had an eye-opening experience. I`ll always be much more polite when dealing with the officials. I`ll treat them the way I'd like to be treated if I was officiating.

Thanks for the replies guys.... I know I kicked the call. I realised it afterwards. At the time, it seemed like the right call. At least now I don`t have to worry about that situation happening again.

Ren

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by rgaudreau
I know I kicked the call. I realised it afterwards.

Ren,

Realizing that you made the mistake is half the battle. Now you'll know what to do next time. It's the guys who are oblivious when they screw up that we worry about.

I do some college ball. Not a lot, but enough to keep me happy (for now). And during our preseason scrimmages, the more senior officials always ask me "Is there a call you'd like to have back?" It makes me think about what I've been calling. It also makes me more aware of whether I'm on the same page as my partners.

So don't get discouraged about blowing one. There will be others. Just learn from it, which I think you've done! Keep it up and good luck with your season.

And, by the way, there is usually at least one that I'd like to have back.

Chuck

[Mark Padgett]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mick

Originally posted by rgaudreau

Ren,
Think back and consider whether, or not, your partner was clear with the one-and-one signal before administering the ball.

This is an excellent point. I train new officials for our local rec league and they are all high school kids. They ref anywhere from 3rd grade up. It's almost impossible to schedule an experienced official with a new kid for those games, because the experienced guys all want to do our HS league (or at least 7th and 8th). To compensate for this, we stress proper mechanics to avoid confusion such as this, and emphasize having young players understand the terminology of the game at our coaches clinics. Coaches are told to teach all terms, including one and one, 3 seconds, how to request a timeout and to not stop playing until they hear a whistle, etc.

A wise person once said that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I don't think it was Bobby Knight, though. Or Rasheed Wallace, for that matter.

[rgaudreau]

Not only was the 1 and 1 indicated, it was explained fully as it was the first one and one for the team. Partner explained that we were shooting a one and one bonus. Play it off the rim on a miss... if it goes in, they have to wait for the 2nd shot.

Ball went off the rim and they all just stood around.

It`s a good thing there are guys like you out there who are willing to take the time and train us properly. I`ve got a couple of guys in my area that I rely on when I have questions. PP who posts here is one of them. He knows a heck of a lot more than he lets on when he`s posting here. (oops... maybe I`m letting the cat out of the bag on that one).

Actually, a bunch of officials play ball every thursday night and afterwards we get together for a tall glass of chocolate milk (or beer) and discuss all the controverial calls of the week. It gives the brain a good workout.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by BktBallRef


No matter what level the game is, the kids deserve better than two guys who are still learning the ropes. There's a lot that can go wrong with two rookies on the floor. Lots of situations that they won't be able to handle from a rules standpoint. The case in point is a perfect example.

There's nothing wrong with taking a leadership role but there's a reason that they don't privates in charge of armies. Young officials should be paired with a more experienced partner. You didn't learn everything that you know on your own and neither did anyone else. We need to mentor young officials and give back to the game. If you don't care to do that, that's fine. But there's a huge need for it.

TH, maybe they deserve better, but that does not mean they are going to get it. And just because two rookies work together, does not mean that they would be much worse or care less than some veterans that are doing the game just to pass the time. Or better yet, officials that have not learned the game since they were rookies. Yes, in an ideal world you would not like to put two people that do not know what they are doing, but because they are rookies, does not mean that applies to just them. Some of the worst officials that I have ever met are veterans. I have met many rookies that some veterans could not hold their jock on a bad day.

BTW, the most experienced, most seasoned refs do not want to do the lower levels anyway. And even if they wanted too, they would not have the time. With the family responsibilities, and work responsibilities, you only have so many times in a week to work a game. I am single and working lower level games (and I mean lower than HS in this case), it is hard to work a game at 4:30 in the afternoon. So many times officials less experienced than myself are officiating games like that. You just tend to have rookies. And it might not even be scheduled that way. After the 3rd person got off the game because they got a better game, or have family obligations to tend to, or just could not get off work in time, it is not all that common that young officials work together. At least where I live.

Peace



[Edited by JRutledge on Nov 8th, 2001 at 02:01 PM]

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by rgaudreau

Actually, a bunch of officials play ball every thursday night and afterwards we get together for a tall glass of chocolate milk (or beer) and discuss all the controverial calls of the week.

Where do you guys get chocolate beer?

[rgaudreau]

Games at 4:30... I wish.

I have the benefit of being a teacher and can get off in time for a 3:30 game like I did tonight. Most of our juvenile games are at 3:45 or 4 oclock.

As for the chocolate beer, you'll just have to move to Northern Ontario. Nothing like a good cold glass of Northern Ale or Moosehead beer.




Ren

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by JRutledge

Or better yet, officials that have not learned the game since they were rookies. Yes, in an ideal world you would not like to put two people that do not know what they are doing, but because they are rookies, does not mean that applies to just them. Some of the worst officials that I have ever met are veterans. I have met many rookies that some veterans could not hold their jock on a bad day.

Could it be that those veterans never had a mentor/veteran to teach them. They simply learned from the TV like the average fan. That's why there are veterans that are so out of touch with proper rules and mechanics.