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Can we stick with the basketball rules - tell me why 4-23-4(b) is worded the way it is, and why it is separate from the LGP provisions?
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M&M's - The Official Candy of the Department of Redundancy Department. (Used with permission.) |
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I don't have my book with me, but it looks like you do. Can you look at the provision for LGP, legal position, and movement? That would be where I would start. Is the book on line anywhere that I can access it? |
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The exact same wording is mentioned in 4-23-5, Guarding a moving opponent without the ball... (d) "If the opponent is airborne, the guard must have obtained legal position before the opponent left the floor." In both cases, it does not say legal guarding position. Both sections specifically mention airborne players (with and without the ball), and are separate from the sections involving LGP. This tells me airborne players are handled differently than under "normal" LGP rules.
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M&M's - The Official Candy of the Department of Redundancy Department. (Used with permission.) Last edited by M&M Guy; Wed Feb 22, 2012 at 02:49pm. Reason: Correct exact wording |
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Simply put, did the defender have a legal position (in the path) at the time the opponent jumped? Yes or No. If they did (in the path), then they satisfied the rule. There is nothing in the rule that says they can no longer move once they have position. "Guarding is the act of legally placing the body in the path of an offensive opponent."The rule mentions nothing about landing spots....it is all about being in the path. If they are not in the path, they do not have legal position and any movement to get in the path of an airborne opponent would be illegal. The case play being cited to counter this is not relevant...that case is implying the player is not in the path and moves to a new position that puts them in the path after the opponent is airborne. It is not talking about moving in the same path and direction....which is what we have here. Check out this case.... 10.6.1 SITUATION C: B1 is standing behind the plane of the backboard before A1 jumps for a lay-up shot. The forward momentum causes airborne shooter A1 to charge into B1. RULING: B1 is entitled to the position obtained legally before A1 left the floor..... However, if B1 moves into the path of A1 after A1 has left the floor, the foul is on B1. .... (4-19-1, 6; 6-7-4; 10 Penalty 2, 5a) Hmmm...sounds like "path" is the key.
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M&M's - The Official Candy of the Department of Redundancy Department. (Used with permission.) |
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For the timing yes, but the action being restricted is moving INTO THE PATH....not all movement.
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In the first part of the case play, B1 was in A1's path too, it's just that it was deemed legal because he was there before A1 left the floor. Camron, I know you like to argue, er, discuss, ( ![]()
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A1 is airborne. Did B1 move? Yes. Did B1 take a position "on that path" (your words, not mine)? Yes. According to your own post, this is not legal. |
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Are you saying that because B1 moved, this turns into a blocking foul on B1? (I'm about two steps away from breaking out stick figure images to see if we can illustrate these points any better...)
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Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there. - Will Rogers Last edited by Welpe; Thu Feb 23, 2012 at 11:41am. |
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M&M's - The Official Candy of the Department of Redundancy Department. (Used with permission.) |
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Owner/Developer of RefTown.com Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association |
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10.6.1 SITUATION C: B1 is standing behind the plane of the backboard before A1 jumps for a lay-up shot. The forward momentum causes airborne shooter A1 to charge into B1. RULING: B1 is entitled to the position obtained legally before A1 left the floor..... However, if B1 moves into the path of A1 after A1 has left the floor, the foul is on B1. .... (4-19-1, 6; 6-7-4; 10 Penalty 2, 5a) The only distinction being made in both cases is whether B1 obtained the position before or after A1 leaves the floor.
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M&M's - The Official Candy of the Department of Redundancy Department. (Used with permission.) |
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There is no difference. He moved to a spot in A1's path. The fact that he started in A1's path does not change the fact that he MOVED to a spot IN A1's PATH.
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