What's the correct call

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I'm not sure, but wasn't the noncontact excessive elbow swing a technical foul (NFHS) several years ago? Hasn't this changed back and forth a few times (violation, technical foul, violation)? Now, where are my house keys?

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

The official in your play is using old rules and incorrect terminology.

Bingo. Was he bald, or did he have gray hair? Was he using a noose lanyard, and wearing a belt? Was he Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

It's a stretch, but can't a hard swinging, but no contact, elbow be construed as a "punch that misses" in a fight that might break out, thus the noncontact technical foul? Again, it's a stretch, but I'm trying to figure out why there was a technical foul in this live ball, noncontact, situation. Or, maybe there were some "bad" words exchanged between the players, like some kind of taunt?

I'm not sure, but wasn't the noncontact excessive elbow swing a technical foul (NFHS) several years ago? Hasn't this changed back and forth a few times (violation, technical foul, violation)? Now, where are my house keys?

Billy:

You are correct that it could be judged a non-contact FTF. I had such a call in the 1994 AAU Girls' 18U Nationals in Cleveland, Ohio. A1 got the ball in the high post with her back to the basket and B1 defender her from behind. A1 pivots a little bit to her left (enough to see where B1 was) and then swung her left elbow directly for B1's head. B1 saw the elbow coming and pulled back just in time to avoid being slammed in the face with A1's elbow. If A1's elbow had made contact with B1's face, B1 would have gone down for the count.

A1's coach didn't like the call, the two Army assistant coaches who were there scouting A1 didn't like the call, and the Official Scorer (who was on the Colgate Univ. men's team at the time) didn't like the call. The smart aleck from Colgate went so far as to tell me that if I disqualified A1 he wouldn't record it in the book. The Site Manager instantly became the new Official Scorer.

MTD, Sr.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Bingo. Was he bald? Did he have gray hair? Was he using a noose lanyard, and wearing a belt? Was he BillyMac?

It was not me; I wear beltless pants. LOL

And I think it was a stupid mistake when the NFHS did make excessive swinging of the elbows a TF when no contact was made. Why? We had officials not calling it when it was a violation (I was not one of the spineless officials.) but the NFHS logic at the time was to make it a TF insuring that nobody would call it.

I will admit that once it became a TF, whenever I had such a situation I had a PCF; with apologies to Lou Costello: "I was a baaad boy." LOL

One time a girls' H.S. varsity HC complained that there was no contact; I told her I could correct call to a TF, to which she replied: "Great call."

But I did make the TF call just once in a girls H.S. varsity game: A1 was about 6'-00" and she got a defensive rebound and started swinging away while B1 (5'-06") tried to guard her. It was obvious that there was no contact but A1's actions where a casebook example of the infraction and I really had no choice but to charge her with a TF. And yes, her HC came close to getting one too, LOL.

MTD, Sr.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Refk

I was sitting behind our bench (unbelievably small gym) and heard our coach ask why it was a technical .. the response was " it was flagrant swinging of his elbow coach ".

So he made the incorrect call and used incorrect terminology to explain the incorrect call.

At least he was consistent.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

At least he was consistent.

Isn't that what we all strive for as officials.