The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 21, 2012, 11:29am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 60
What's the correct call

Watching my son's Varsity game last night .... Our player has the ball just above the key and the defensive player is attempting to tie up the ball. Our player pivots and swings his arms/elbows through unbelivably fast, but does not create contact. The official called a technical foul on him .

My question(s) are:

1. I believe the correct call would be a violation due to excessive swinging of the elbows (if the official believed that occurred) from my vantage point it wasn't b/c he swung through as he was pivoting. Am I correct ?

2) What is the call if he had made contact with the defensive player ?

3) My real concern was for the defensive player, if he had been hit with this motion it really would have caused injury , is there anything we as officials can do ?

Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 21, 2012, 11:33am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Refk View Post
Watching my son's Varsity game last night .... Our player has the ball just above the key and the defensive player is attempting to tie up the ball. Our player pivots and swings his arms/elbows through unbelivably fast, but does not create contact. The official called a technical foul on him .

My question(s) are:

1. I believe the correct call would be a violation due to excessive swinging of the elbows (if the official believed that occurred) from my vantage point it wasn't b/c he swung through as he was pivoting. Am I correct ?

2) What is the call if he had made contact with the defensive player ?

3) My real concern was for the defensive player, if he had been hit with this motion it really would have caused injury , is there anything we as officials can do ?

Thanks
1. Correct

2. Player control unless the official believed it to be INT or Flagrant.

3. Officials blow the whistle AFTER illegal contact occurs.
__________________
I gotta new attitude!
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 21, 2012, 11:35am
APG APG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,889
Quote:
Originally Posted by Refk View Post
Watching my son's Varsity game last night .... Our player has the ball just above the key and the defensive player is attempting to tie up the ball. Our player pivots and swings his arms/elbows through unbelivably fast, but does not create contact. The official called a technical foul on him .

My question(s) are:

1. I believe the correct call would be a violation due to excessive swinging of the elbows (if the official believed that occurred) from my vantage point it wasn't b/c he swung through as he was pivoting. Am I correct ?
If he thought the player was excessively swinging his elbows (without contact), then it would be a violation rather than a T

Quote:
2) What is the call if he had made contact with the defensive player ?
Player control foul, intentional foul, or flagrant foul though realistically, you'd probably gonna have at the least an intentional foul for excessive contact.

Quote:
3) My real concern was for the defensive player, if he had been hit with this motion it really would have caused injury , is there anything we as officials can do ?
If it's an isolated instance, then no...if you call it the first time it happens, it hopefully curtails the chances of it happening again.
__________________
Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.

Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.

Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 21, 2012, 11:35am
Fav theme: Roundball Rock
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Near Dog River (sorta)
Posts: 8,558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Refk View Post
Watching my son's Varsity game last night .... Our player has the ball just above the key and the defensive player is attempting to tie up the ball. Our player pivots and swings his arms/elbows through unbelivably fast, but does not create contact. The official called a technical foul on him.

My question(s) are:

1. I believe the correct call would be a violation due to excessive swinging of the elbows (if the official believed that occurred) from my vantage point it wasn't b/c he swung through as he was pivoting. Am I correct ?

2) What is the call if he had made contact with the defensive player ?

3) My real concern was for the defensive player, if he had been hit with this motion it really would have caused injury , is there anything we as officials can do ?

Thanks
Sounds like it should have been a violation, because no contact was made. Calling a T is a previous ruling.

If illegal contact was made, I see a PC foul. If I suspected anything else, INT and flagrant are possible.
__________________
Pope Francis
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 21, 2012, 11:39am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 60
Thanks for the reply,

I called another official this morning and explained it to him and asked what he thought. He responded that if the elbow was above the shoulder then he would call an intentional. I told him that it didn't matter the location but he disagreed. So I told him I was going to come here .

Thanks again
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 21, 2012, 11:41am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Refk View Post
I called another official this morning and explained it to him and asked what he thought. He responded that if the elbow was above the shoulder then he would call an intentional. I told him that it didn't matter the location but he disagreed. So I told him I was going to come here .

Thanks again
Not a problem, an elbow above the shoulder is the NCAA ruling.
__________________
I gotta new attitude!
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 21, 2012, 11:41am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Refk View Post
Thanks for the reply,

I called another official this morning and explained it to him and asked what he thought. He responded that if the elbow was above the shoulder then he would call an intentional.
That's (sort of) the NCAA rule.

Note that the violation is for swinging the elbows faster than the torso. If it's an entire pivot (and the elbows stay in the same relative spot to the torso), then it's no violation, and can only be a foul (if contact is made).
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 21, 2012, 11:46am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,934
I Went To A Fight And A Basketball Game Broke Out ...

It's a stretch, but can't a hard swinging, but no contact, elbow be construed as a "punch that misses" in a fight that might break out, thus the noncontact technical foul? Again, it's a stretch, but I'm trying to figure out why there was a technical foul in this live ball, noncontact, situation. Or, maybe there were some "bad" words exchanged between the players, like some kind of taunt?

I'm not sure, but wasn't the noncontact excessive elbow swing a technical foul (NFHS) several years ago? Hasn't this changed back and forth a few times (violation, technical foul, violation)? Now, where are my house keys?
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Feb 21, 2012 at 11:53am.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 21, 2012, 11:51am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 60
I was sitting behind our bench (unbelievably small gym) and heard our coach ask why it was a technical .. the response was " it was flagrant swinging of his elbow coach ".
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 21, 2012, 11:52am
APG APG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,889
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
It's a stretch, but can't a hard swinging, but no contact, elbow be construed as a "punch that misses" in a fight that might break out, thus the noncontact technical foul? Again, it's a stretch, but I'm trying to figure out why there was a technical foul in this live ball, noncontact, situation. Or, maybe there were some "bad" words exchanged between the players, like some kind of taunt?
Well then someone's getting ejected (sorry, disqualified) in your scenario. No one was ejected in the OP's play.
__________________
Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.

Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.


Last edited by APG; Tue Feb 21, 2012 at 11:55am.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 21, 2012, 11:54am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Missouri
Posts: 671
What is the violation? "Excessive swinging of the arms"? So this would be just like a traveling violation?
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 21, 2012, 11:57am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: PG County, MD
Posts: 412
Quote:
Originally Posted by ballgame99 View Post
What is the violation? "Excessive swinging of the arms"? So this would be just like a traveling violation?
Correct ... if no contact was made.
__________________
You learn something new everyday ...
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 21, 2012, 11:57am
APG APG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,889
Quote:
Originally Posted by ballgame99 View Post
What is the violation? "Excessive swinging of the arms"? So this would be just like a traveling violation?
Excessive swinging of the elbows...ball is awarded to the offended team at the OOB spot closest to where the violation occurred. If this occurs, while a try is in flight, by the team who shot the ball, the ball becomes dead and no basket can be scored.
__________________
Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.

Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.

Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 21, 2012, 11:58am
Lighten up, Francis.
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Refk View Post
I was sitting behind our bench (unbelievably small gym) and heard our coach ask why it was a technical .. the response was " it was flagrant swinging of his elbow coach ".
If it was flagrant (e.g., an attempt to strike the opponent), then the player should have been disqualified.

The official in your play is using old rules and incorrect terminology.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 21, 2012, 12:10pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,934
Well, At Least I Gave It A Shot ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
Well then someone's getting ejected (sorry, disqualified) in your scenario. No one was ejected in the OP's play.
Good point AllPurposeGamer.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What is the correct call? ozzy6900 Baseball 41 Fri Oct 24, 2008 05:33pm
What's the correct call BlueTick48 Baseball 8 Fri Aug 01, 2008 09:02am
Was this the correct call LouisianaDave Basketball 10 Wed Feb 14, 2007 04:32pm
What is the correct call? RecRef Basketball 3 Sun Nov 24, 2002 11:07pm
What is the correct call? gabenet Basketball 15 Mon Oct 28, 2002 07:21pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:54am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1