What is the correct call?

[ozzy6900]

This is a Fall League, Babe Ruth, 16U, OBR, enclosed field, day game but there are lights if needed! I am an observer for the PU.

As is with many of the fields that we use, there are not bull pens so the relief pitcher and a catcher go down the line (right field in this case) with a third player for protection.

There is 1 out with R1, batter hits a screamer that bounces on the dirt inside of 1st base (pointed fair by the PU). The ball is missed by F3 and is still screaming down the line when it bounces again and heads into foul territory (damn thing is still running like it was on afterburners). F9 is charging to the line when the ball hits something and takes to the air (like a rising fastball ). The player assigned to protect the battery warming up instinctively reaches out to protect himself and catches the ball.

The PU killed the ball and was approached by the base coach who is looking for an obstruction call. The PU and the BU get together and agree on obstruction. At this point, the defensive manager comes out and argues how obstruction can be called when no runner was obstructed. He also added that if the call is in fact obstruction, there has to be a base award. So the PU and the BU re-confer and come up with interference. Now the Offensive manager is questioning how it could be interference when the offense didn't do anything wrong! It's beginning to look like the coaches know more than the umpires!

The PU and BU now move their conference to the fence in front of me. I see what is about to happen and I just wave and tell them that I will be in the parking lot.

They ruled a dead ball and put R1 back at 1st, the BR back in the batter's box with the original count of 2-1. The game was protested.

[DonInKansas]

Is the offending protecting player on the defensive or offensive team. Trying to remember if that matters.......

[bobbybanaduck]

intentional interference by a person authorized to be on the playing field

Impose such penalties so as to nullify the interference.

3.15

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by DonInKansas

Is the offending protecting player on the defensive or offensive team. Trying to remember if that matters.......

It does matter...this happened to me this past summer...the offense hit a screamer down the 1b line, probably similar to the OP. However the offense sent a player down the line to shag a foul ball from a previous pitch. The shagger grabs the ball assuming the batted ball to be foul as well.

I immediately killed the play place R1 at 2b and B/R at 1B...My justification was that I was not going to give R1 a free base (3B) because his own player caused the dead ball.

Had this been a defensive player (example: defensive player chasing a ball down the third base line) I would've awarded the bases that they would've reached had the interference not occurred...R1 to 3B, B/R to 2B...

That's how I would've ruled it.

Either way, my understanding is that as soon as somebody else touches the ball who shouldn't be on the field at that time and prevents the defense from making a play...there's got to be a call...

I realize that there's holes in my above post...(neutral ball boy/girl, base coaches, etc..)..but I don't want to type any more.

Who else has thoughts?

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

intentional interference by a person authorized to be on the playing field

Impose such penalties so as to nullify the interference.

3.15

Bingo!!

"Obstruction" would not be the correct ruling. Just place runners in your judgment would nullify the interference.

[bobbybanaduck]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

It does matter...this happened to me this past summer...the offense hit a screamer down the 1b line, probably similar to the OP. However the offense sent a player down the line to shag a foul ball from a previous pitch. The shagger grabs the ball assuming the batted ball to be foul as well.

I immediately killed the play place R1 at 2b and B/R at 1B...My justification was that I was not going to give R1 a free base (3B) because his own player caused the dead ball.

Had this been a defensive player (example: defensive player chasing a ball down the third base line) I would've awarded the bases that they would've reached had the interference not occurred...R1 to 3B, B/R to 2B...

That's how I would've ruled it.

Either way, my understanding is that as soon as somebody else touches the ball who shouldn't be on the field at that time and prevents the defense from making a play...there's got to be a call...

I realize that there's holes in my above post...(neutral ball boy/girl, base coaches, etc..)..but I don't want to type any more.

Who else has thoughts?

Why would the penalty be any different? While you are allowed by rule to put the runners anywhere you want, you aren't giving the offense anything more than they would have gotten anyway no matter color uniform the interfering player is wearing. By imposing different penalties depending on who does what you are effectively making $hit up. Consistency is a virtue. Seersucker is a fabric.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

The PU and BU now move their conference to the fence in front of me. I see what is about to happen and I just wave and tell them that I will be in the parking lot.

This call sounds right to me.

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

They ruled a dead ball and put R1 back at 1st, the BR back in the batter's box with the original count of 2-1. The game was protested.

I bet it was seeing as how the batter hit a fair ball.

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

intentional interference by a person authorized to be on the playing field

Impose such penalties so as to nullify the interference.

3.15

I would go with this one if I was on the field.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

The player assigned to protect the battery warming up instinctively reaches out to protect himself and catches the ball.

.

Isn't that what he's there for? If it's coming at him, isn't it his job to protect the battery? How is he supposed to do that if he isn't supposed to touch the ball?

Why aren't there ground rules for this?

Or am I missing something?

Rita

[bobbybanaduck]

There aren't ground rules because it's already in the rules, as I posted above. 3.15

[Nigel Tufnel]

Originally Posted by Rita C

Isn't that what he's there for? If it's coming at him, isn't it his job to protect the battery? How is he supposed to do that if he isn't supposed to touch the ball?

Why aren't there ground rules for this?

Or am I missing something?

Rita

This is coming from an ump and more importantly an ex-player.
The guy is there to protect the battery on a FOUL ball...I know there is nothing in the rules, but this is an unwritten rule and just common sense...at 16U, you never know..It's his job to warn his teammates - "heads up" - no matter how fast a fair ball is coming their way..

You are not missing anything Rita...just one of those plays you have to just umpire..using the interference rule as Bobby cited..

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

Why would the penalty be any different? While you are allowed by rule to put the runners anywhere you want, you aren't giving the offense anything more than they would have gotten anyway no matter color uniform the interfering player is wearing. By imposing different penalties depending on who does what you are effectively making $hit up. Consistency is a virtue. Seersucker is a fabric.

I see your point...but you can't really have a one size fits all ruling here...the rule doesn't even say that. I wouldn't be making anything up. Why would I reward the offense for a mistake by somebody on their own team? Right or wrong, that was my rationale...certainly I'll read the rest of these threads and learn one way or another. thanks for your post!

[David B]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

I see your point...but you can't really have a one size fits all ruling here...the rule doesn't even say that. I wouldn't be making anything up. Why would I reward the offense for a mistake by somebody on their own team? Right or wrong, that was my rationale...certainly I'll read the rest of these threads and learn one way or another. thanks for your post!

If the offense interferes, then I'm going to penalize accordingly. I'm not going to give them anything I don't have to.

Same as a player interfering with ball in front of the dugout.

Thanks
David

[bobbybanaduck]

You don't have to give them the world, you just HAVE to give them what would nullify the act of interference. Even if Ichiro was in right and David Ortiz was batting, a ball that went fair over the bag and ended up in the bullpen would result in Ortiz at 2B, ball interfered with or not. That being said, the only questions that remain are just how far R1 and the B/R would have advanced. If it was the offense's bullpen, then maybe your judgment would be that R1 would have only made it to 3B. If it was the defense's bullpen, maybe, just maybe, your judgment would have R1 scoring and maybe it would have been a triple. THAT inconsistency I can live with. Putting R1 at 2B and the B/R at 1B I don't buy.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Nigel Tufnel

This is coming from an ump and more importantly an ex-player.
The guy is there to protect the battery on a FOUL ball...I know there is nothing in the rules,

Yes there is. Bobby has cited it repeatedly.

[tballump]

Wouldn't the penalty be the same as if there were intentional interference by a fan, ball girl, or camerman in the big leagues? You just place the runners where they should be as if there was no interference. Of course the offensive team manager if he is like Whitey Herzog, should argue that his player is Vince Coleman's brother and would have scored on the play rather than just made 3rd base.