Karl Hess tosses two NC State players

[IUgrad92]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Any adult who admittedly spends the majority of the game harping on the referees rather than cheering for their team is, by definition, a buffoon.

Ok, same adult admitted that "There were seven or eight different calls we were contesting and that no profanity was used." Is 7-8 calls considered the majority of the game?

The whole 'us' verses 'them' is a ridiculous theme, especially when it's propogated from 'our' side. Leave that to the other side. When we, as officials, jump on this kind of bandwagon, calling people names without any real evidence is silly at best. It just seems that people in our profession would, by default, pass judgement until real evidence, a detailed report, a video, something is produced to vindicate one side or the other and not go by assumption.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by IUgrad92

Ok, same adult admitted that "There were seven or eight different calls we were contesting and that no profanity was used." Is 7-8 calls considered the majority of the game?

7-8 calls is what they admitted to. How does your experience convert that into reality?

Originally Posted by IUgrad92

The whole 'us' verses 'them' is a ridiculous theme, especially when it's propogated from 'our' side. Leave that to the other side. When we, as officials, jump on this kind of bandwagon, calling people names without any real evidence is silly at best. It just seems that people in our profession would, by default, pass judgement until real evidence, a detailed report, a video, something is produced to vindicate one side or the other and not go by assumption.

I (and others) simply default to the officials until presented with sufficient contrary evidence. A guy with Hess' experience doesn't have rabbit ears, he doesn't toss "distinguished alumni" without good cause, and he doesn't go looking for trouble. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt over the guy who admits to sitting behind the table and loudly complaining about more than half a dozen calls in a single game.

Let's assume 8 calls in a 40 minute game. They're losing their minds every 5 minutes of game time? Once a game is a fan. Two or three, that's an annoyance. 7-8 (or more likely 10-12) is a distraction and a problem.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

7-8 calls is what they admitted to. How does your experience convert that into reality?

About the same as somebody admitting to an officer they've had only two beers.

[IUgrad92]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I (and others) simply default to the officials until presented with sufficient contrary evidence.

So officials are innocent until proven guilty, while the other side is guilty until proven innocent. I believe that sums up your logic.....

[IUgrad92]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt over the guy who admits to sitting behind the table and loudly complaining about more than half a dozen calls in a single game.

I had an AAU championship game last Sunday. The one team's parents were sitting in a block at one end of the bleachers and were fairly loud and obnoxious, and I personally thought they were clueless to the point they had me and my partners laughing.

They were like that the whole game. Everyone else in the gym knew what they were. Only when I heard profanity over one call did I then go get game management. But that wasn't till the 4th quarter. Up to that point they had probably complained loudly over 10-20 call/no-calls.. Oh the humanity.......

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by IUgrad92

So officials are innocent until proven guilty, while the other side is guilty until proven innocent. I believe that sums up your logic.....

Oh stop it. The guys admitted to saying things to the officials on several occasions. They are probably never going to admit to saying something over the top or be specific and probably do it so frequently they think it is OK based on their past situations. As stated before, no one in the ACC said Hess or anyone was wrong for ejecting these guys, just that a procedure that we can debate about was not followed. You cannot seriously be an official and be surprised that a fan was ejected for comments that would have been seen as over the top or inappropriate? Then again many of these things people claim here do not surprise me anymore either.

Peace

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by IUgrad92

So officials are innocent until proven guilty, while the other side is guilty until proven innocent. I believe that sums up your logic.....

Is that so surprising? Somebody was wrong. Under the circumstances, an official or a fan did something wrong (possibly both). Giving the benefit of the doubt to the official implies that the fan did something wrong. The logic is sound.

Giving the benefit of the doubt is different from defending someone, come what may. But I don't see that here.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by IUgrad92

So officials are innocent until proven guilty, while the other side is guilty until proven innocent. I believe that sums up your logic.....

If you're going to make me choose, sure.

And do you honestly think this compares with your AAU game?

[truerookie]

IUgrad,

Tread carefully.

[Kingsman1288]

Apparently there's a heckler's code now? Not sure what to make of this article.

Chris Corchiani, Tom Gugliotta proved the perils of heckling - Steve Rushin - SI.com

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Kingsman1288

Apparently there's a heckler's code now? Not sure what to make of this article.

Chris Corchiani, Tom Gugliotta proved the perils of heckling - Steve Rushin - SI.com

As long as it is not a code of honor.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by IUgrad92

Ok, same adult admitted that "There were seven or eight different calls we were contesting and that no profanity was used." Is 7-8 calls considered the majority of the game?

And there is NO WAY that said individual might underestimate how severe his behavior was, right? Why do you expect that we should take him at his word?

Besides, I think that this statement by him speaks more to the type of fan he is: "We're not denying we were all over him, but I've been doing that every game I've been at since I retired," said Corchiani, who said he attends just about every NC State game. "That's homecourt advantage."

You know what? Grow up. You're in your 40s now. Quit acting like a petulant child. It was cool for me and my friends to yell at the referees when we were in high school. At some point it becomes no longer cool. You're well past that point. Start acting like an adult. The university holds you up as a "legend". Act like one.

Originally Posted by IUgrad92

It just seems that people in our profession would, by default, pass judgement until real evidence, a detailed report, a video, something is produced to vindicate one side or the other and not go by assumption.

You don't always need video to come to a conclusion — there is tons of other evidence. If your kid tells you something and an adult that you trust tells you a different story who do you believe? Do you need video evidence to come to a reasonable conclusion? Of course not.

Karl Hess didn't get to where he is by having rabbit ears and kicking people out of games willy-nilly. If he stopped the ESPN nationally-televised game to have a fan removed it was for a damn good reason. I don't need to see the video of their behavior to prove it. In fact, the video of them immediately leaving is enough to tell me that they knew they had been caught —*just like the look the dog gives you when you ask him if he ate the steak on the counter. You don't need video to know that he did.

Finally, I think that officials take so much crap from coaches, fans, commentators, etc. that there is a natural tendency to stick together in the one place we can —*with each other. Karl Hess has been unfairly thrown under the bus by the AD, ESPN, sports commentators, etc. I promise you if the two fans that had been kicked out were just your average everyday fans this would have NEVER even been a news story.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I (and others) simply default to the officials until presented with sufficient contrary evidence. A guy with Hess' experience doesn't have rabbit ears, he doesn't toss "distinguished alumni" without good cause, and he doesn't go looking for trouble. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt over the guy who admits to sitting behind the table and loudly complaining about more than half a dozen calls in a single game.

I hadn't read your reply before I wrote mine, so I will just say... THIS!!

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Welpe

About the same as somebody admitting to an officer they've had only two beers.

LOLOL ... Well played.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by IUgrad92

I had an AAU championship game last Sunday. The one team's parents were sitting in a block at one end of the bleachers and were fairly loud and obnoxious, and I personally thought they were clueless to the point they had me and my partners laughing.

They were like that the whole game. Everyone else in the gym knew what they were. Only when I heard profanity over one call did I then go get game management. But that wasn't till the 4th quarter. Up to that point they had probably complained loudly over 10-20 call/no-calls.. Oh the humanity.......

Do you really think that Hess threw them out just for complaining about calls?

Also, as others pointed out, your experience in an AAU game really has no bearing on this. Apples and oranges really.