Going the wrong way...

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Did A1 use her dribble yet?

As I see it, if A-1 puts the ball on the wrong backboard, that's one dribble. The ball does not go in, and A-1 catches the ball, and "tries" again. The instant that ball hits the backboard again -- regardless of whether it hit the rim the first time -- we have a double dribble, correct?

[WreckRef]

Originally Posted by bainsey

As I see it, if A-1 puts the ball on the wrong backboard, that's one dribble. The ball does not go in, and A-1 catches the ball, and "tries" again. The instant that ball hits the backboard again -- regardless of whether it hit the rim the first time -- we have a double dribble, correct?

I would think you wouldn't have the double dribble until they caught it off the backboard again.

Just like if you dribble, catch. Then dribble again, it's not a violation until they touch it again, not when it hits the floor.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by bainsey

As I see it, if A-1 puts the ball on the wrong backboard, that's one dribble. The ball does not go in, and A-1 catches the ball, and "tries" again. The instant that ball hits the backboard again -- regardless of whether it hit the rim the first time -- we have a double dribble, correct?

When does a dribble become illegal? That should answer your question.

Would you call an illegal dribble if a player holding a ball dribbles once, catches the ball, throws the ball to the floor and then doesn't touch it again?

Originally Posted by WreckRef

I left out that parts that were irrelevant to my question to save time/space. Sorry if it added to any confusion.

The confusing part was that you quoted one play but then a different ruling, which made the whole statement incorrect on its face.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Would you call an illegal dribble if a player holding a ball dribbles once, catches the ball, throws the ball to the floor and then doesn't touch it again?

Edit: If it's a throw to the floor, then no, but by definition, doesn't any throw against the opponent's backboard constitute a dribble?

If so, as Cobra pointed out, as soon as the ball hit that backboard a second time, tweet.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by Welpe

When does a dribble become illegal? That should answer your question.

Would you call an illegal dribble if a player holding a ball dribbles once, catches the ball, throws the ball to the floor and then doesn't touch it again?

The second dribble becomes illegal as soon as the dribble occurs. When the ball is pushed to the floor is when the violation occurs.

Sometimes pushing the ball to the floor could be a dribble or it could be a pass. There are other times where it is obviously a dribble. If there are no other players within 20 feet of the guy with the ball and he pushes the ball straight down to the floor it is pretty obvious that he is not trying to pass the ball. So yes, it is a violation as soon as he dribbles the ball. Touching the ball after dribbling is not required for it to be a violation.

[WreckRef]

Originally Posted by Cobra

The second dribble becomes illegal as soon as the dribble occurs. When the ball is pushed to the floor is when the violation occurs.

Sometimes pushing the ball to the floor could be a dribble or it could be a pass. There are other times where it is obviously a dribble. If there are no other players within 20 feet of the guy with the ball and he pushes the ball straight down to the floor it is pretty obvious that he is not trying to pass the ball. So yes, it is a violation as soon as he dribbles the ball. Touching the ball after dribbling is not required for it to be a violation.

Is this correct? I don't see how people being near or not near the player should make a difference. I don't see how you can call it one way one time then another way another time just because there is a player near the player with the ball.

From what you are saying, if A1 standing near A2 dribbles, catches their dribble then pushes the ball towards the floor then A2 takes it, it's not a double dribble. But if A1, with no one near him dribbles, catches then pushes the ball towards the floor you would call a double dribble as soon as they push it. Is that what you are saying?

Wouldn't that also mean that if A1 was going the wrong way, started a lay in, you would call the double dribble BEFORE it hits the backboard? That again does not seem correct.

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by Cobra

The second dribble becomes illegal as soon as the dribble occurs. When the ball is pushed to the floor is when the violation occurs.

Sometimes pushing the ball to the floor could be a dribble or it could be a pass. There are other times where it is obviously a dribble. If there are no other players within 20 feet of the guy with the ball and he pushes the ball straight down to the floor it is pretty obvious that he is not trying to pass the ball. So yes, it is a violation as soon as he dribbles the ball. Touching the ball after dribbling is not required for it to be a violation.

Wrong.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by SamIAm

Wrong.

Why is that wrong?

The definiton of a dribble is "ball movement caused by a player in control who bats (intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)) or pushes the ball to the floor once or several times." Dribbling is pushing the ball to the floor, it doesn't have anything to do with the ball coming back up.

Originally Posted by WreckRef

Is this correct? I don't see how people being near or not near the player should make a difference. I don't see how you can call it one way one time then another way another time just because there is a player near the player with the ball.

From what you are saying, if A1 standing near A2 dribbles, catches their dribble then pushes the ball towards the floor then A2 takes it, it's not a double dribble. But if A1, with no one near him dribbles, catches then pushes the ball towards the floor you would call a double dribble as soon as they push it. Is that what you are saying?

You've got to make a decision if it's a dribble or a pass. Sometimes a bounce pass and a dribble can look similar. You've got to decide which one it is. If the ball is immediately controlled by another player then you can assume it was a pass.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Cobra

Why is that wrong?

The definiton of a dribble is "ball movement caused by a player in control who bats (intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)) or pushes the ball to the floor once or several times." Dribbling is pushing the ball to the floor, it doesn't have anything to do with the ball coming back up.



You've got to make a decision if it's a dribble or a pass. Sometimes a bounce pass and a dribble can look similar. You've got to decide which one it is. If the ball is immediately controlled by another player then you can assume it was a pass.

While you're right about when the dribble begins, I don't foresee ever making this call before the "dribble" re-contacts the dribbler. There's no way I know if it's a dribble before that happens. 97 times out of 98, you'll be right and no one will care. The one time, however, I actually blow my whistle when it hits the backboard, the ball will carom off the rim and B2 will retrieve it and have a wide open shot that I have to take away.

No reason not to wait a half second until the "shooter" re-contacts the ball.

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by Cobra

Why is that wrong?

The definiton of a dribble is "ball movement caused by a player in control who bats (intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)) or pushes the ball to the floor once or several times." Dribbling is pushing the ball to the floor, it doesn't have anything to do with the ball coming back up.

You've got to make a decision if it's a dribble or a pass. Sometimes a bounce pass and a dribble can look similar. You've got to decide which one it is. If the ball is immediately controlled by another player then you can assume it was a pass.

What Snaqs and APG said and A1 might bounce the ball off his foot in such a manner that B1 - B5 could get an easy basket.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Cobra

The second dribble becomes illegal as soon as the dribble occurs. When the ball is pushed to the floor is when the violation occurs.

Sometimes pushing the ball to the floor could be a dribble or it could be a pass. There are other times where it is obviously a dribble. If there are no other players within 20 feet of the guy with the ball and he pushes the ball straight down to the floor it is pretty obvious that he is not trying to pass the ball. So yes, it is a violation as soon as he dribbles the ball. Touching the ball after dribbling is not required for it to be a violation.

I have never seen anyone try and make that distinction and neither am I. I'm not going to make a decision on these type of plays until the player touches the ball again.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Cobra

The second dribble becomes illegal as soon as the dribble occurs. When the ball is pushed to the floor is when the violation occurs.

Sometimes pushing the ball to the floor could be a dribble or it could be a pass. There are other times where it is obviously a dribble. If there are no other players within 20 feet of the guy with the ball and he pushes the ball straight down to the floor it is pretty obvious that he is not trying to pass the ball. So yes, it is a violation as soon as he dribbles the ball. Touching the ball after dribbling is not required for it to be a violation.

This is not correct. Should the guy realize before catching the 2nd dribble that he's about to violate, and doesn't actually catch or touch the ball, all you have is a very slow and very bad pass.

[Damian]

If A1 shoots at B's goal, misses and catches the rebound even without dribbling, he probably lifted his pivot foot on the try(not shot). If the goal is considered the floor, then he has traveled.

[just another ref]

A1 is holding the ball. He has used his dribble. B1 steps up and the official starts his closely guarded count. A1 looks to pass but no teammate is open. As the count approaches 5, A1, in his panic, forgets and pushes the ball straight to the floor, and tries to go around. Before A1 has a chance to touch it again, B1 slaps the ball out of bounds. What's the call?

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

This is not correct. Should the guy realize before catching the 2nd dribble that he's about to violate, and doesn't actually catch or touch the ball, all you have is a very slow and very bad pass.

Saying that you don't like it or you don't call it that way is one thing, but you can't say it is wrong. You just admitted the guy dribbled a second time after the first dribble ended. That is about one word off of the exact definition of an illegal dribble.

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

+1

What about this one. A1 accidently dribbles to B's basket. They gather the ball with two hands and lay it off the backboard and into the basket. Are you going to call the double dribble here cobra and wipe off the two points A scored for the other tea, by calling a double dribble. I think not. They would have to miss the shot and retouch teh ball to get that call.

He's not dribbling the ball in this situation. The dribble definition describes a player batting or pushing a ball. The pass definition also describes a player batting a ball. What that means is that the official must decide what the player is trying to do as the same act can be considered different things. In this situation the player is not dribbling, he is trying to throw the ball into the basket. It is similar to a player who stops dribbling then tries to make a trick shot by bouncing the ball off the floor and into the basket. He did throw the ball into the floor after ending his dribble but he wasn't dribbling, he was trying to bounce the ball into the basket therefore it isn't a violation.

Originally Posted by just another ref

A1 is holding the ball. He has used his dribble. B1 steps up and the official starts his closely guarded count. A1 looks to pass but no teammate is open. As the count approaches 5, A1, in his panic, forgets and pushes the ball straight to the floor, and tries to go around. Before A1 has a chance to touch it again, B1 slaps the ball out of bounds. What's the call?

That's an illegal dribble. I'm very surprised that another poster said they would allow A keep the ball after committing a violation (illegal dribble) in an attempt to avoid an imminent violation (5-second).

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

I have never seen anyone try and make that distinction and neither am I. I'm not going to make a decision on these type of plays until the player touches the ball again.

I find it odd that you have never heard of this considering it's just the definition of an illegal dribble combined with the definition of a dribble. How does one be a basketball official and not understand these concepts? I understand that some may refuse to enforce the rules but usually they at least know what the rules actually are.