Going the wrong way...

[WreckRef]

This will be a little long so please bear with me...I've asked a couple of officials and nobody has known the answer so I've turned to the forum for the answer.

9.5 (b) A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the ball against his/her own backboard and catches the ball.

Ruling: A1 has violated; throwing the ball against an opponent's backboard constitutes another dribble.

My question is does this include shooting the ball off the backboard?
Example: A1 is going the wrong way, shoots a lay in off the backboard then catches the miss. Double dribble?

What if the player going the wrong way tries to lay it in without using the backboard and it strikes the rim only, misses and then they catch it?

What if the player going the wrong way tries to lay it in and shoots an airball? Is this considered an illegal pass to themselves?

Can you ever be considered actually shooting if it's towards the wrong basket?

Because the case book says, "throws the ball off the backboard," I have one official telling me they can shoot at the wrong basket, rebound, shoot again, rebound, shoot again, etc.

Due to officiating 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th grade tournaments on the weekend, this actually comes up more often than you'd think and I'd like to know the correct ruling.

Thanks for your help.

[La Rikardo]

A player can only attempt a try at his own basket, so it makes no difference whether or not the player was "shooting" at his opponent's basket.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by WreckRef

9.5 (b) A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the ball against his/her own backboard and catches the ball.

Ruling: A1 has violated; throwing the ball against an opponent's backboard constitutes another dribble.

Your quotation of the casebook play is a little disjointed. Here it is in its entirety.


A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the ball against: (a) his/her own backboard; (b) the opponent's backboard; or (c) an official and catches the ball after each.

RULING: Legal in (a); a team's own backboard is considered part of that team's "equipment" and may be used. In (b) and (c), A1 has violated; throwing the ball against an opponent's backboard or an official constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it strikes the official or the board. (4-4-5; 4-15-1, 4-15-2; Fundamental 19)

As La Rikardo stated, by definition, a try is an attempt at a player's own goal.

Since throwing the ball towards the opponent's goal is not a try, throwing the ball against the opponent's backboard and catching it would be the same as starting a dribble. Catching an airball thrown at an opponent's backboard would be covered under casebook play 4.44.3 SITUATION D.

[bob jenkins]

also see 4-Ball Location to determine what happens (the "location") when the ball hits the opponents backboard. Then, substitute that "location" for "back board" and the rulings will be clear.

[bainsey]

I had something like this last Saturday.

A-1 gets confused and attempts a shot at B's basket. A-2 gets the rebound and puts the ball back up (amid cries of "what are you doing?!"), but that "fails" and goes back to A-1, who wakes up and dribbles in the correct direction.

Your brain goes into "this should be interesting" mode during this process. I waited to see if I'd have one of those freakish double-dribble calls, but the ball went between two players. Had the A-1 caught her "rebound" and put the ball back up off the backboard, even if it hit the rim on the way down, would we still have a double dribble? The rim doesn't kill control, right?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I had something like this last Saturday.

A-1 gets confused and attempts a shot at B's basket. A-2 gets the rebound and puts the ball back up (amid cries of "what are you doing?!"), but that "fails" and goes back to A-1, who wakes up and dribbles in the correct direction.

Your brain goes into "this should be interesting" mode during this process. I waited to see if I'd have one of those freakish double-dribble calls, but the ball went between two players. Had the A-1 caught her "rebound" and put the ball back up off the backboard, even if it hit the rim on the way down, would we still have a double dribble? The rim doesn't kill control, right?

Not yet (as I read the play). Correct.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by WreckRef

What if the player going the wrong way tries to lay it in without using the backboard and it strikes the rim only, misses and then they catch it?

What if the player going the wrong way tries to lay it in and shoots an airball? Is this considered an illegal pass to themselves?

No, it's not considered "an illegal pass to themselves." There's no such thing. It's either a travel, or an illegal dribble, but it's not an "illegal pass."

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Had the A-1 caught her "rebound" and put the ball back up off the backboard, even if it hit the rim on the way down, would we still have a double dribble?

Did A1 use her dribble yet?

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Did A1 use her dribble yet?

As I see it, if A-1 puts the ball on the wrong backboard, that's one dribble. The ball does not go in, and A-1 catches the ball, and "tries" again. The instant that ball hits the backboard again -- regardless of whether it hit the rim the first time -- we have a double dribble, correct?

[WreckRef]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Your quotation of the casebook play is a little disjointed. Here it is in its entirety.

I left out that parts that were irrelevant to my question to save time/space. Sorry if it added to any confusion.

[WreckRef]

Originally Posted by bainsey

As I see it, if A-1 puts the ball on the wrong backboard, that's one dribble. The ball does not go in, and A-1 catches the ball, and "tries" again. The instant that ball hits the backboard again -- regardless of whether it hit the rim the first time -- we have a double dribble, correct?

I would think you wouldn't have the double dribble until they caught it off the backboard again.

Just like if you dribble, catch. Then dribble again, it's not a violation until they touch it again, not when it hits the floor.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by bainsey

As I see it, if A-1 puts the ball on the wrong backboard, that's one dribble. The ball does not go in, and A-1 catches the ball, and "tries" again. The instant that ball hits the backboard again -- regardless of whether it hit the rim the first time -- we have a double dribble, correct?

When does a dribble become illegal? That should answer your question.

Would you call an illegal dribble if a player holding a ball dribbles once, catches the ball, throws the ball to the floor and then doesn't touch it again?

Originally Posted by WreckRef

I left out that parts that were irrelevant to my question to save time/space. Sorry if it added to any confusion.

The confusing part was that you quoted one play but then a different ruling, which made the whole statement incorrect on its face.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Would you call an illegal dribble if a player holding a ball dribbles once, catches the ball, throws the ball to the floor and then doesn't touch it again?

Edit: If it's a throw to the floor, then no, but by definition, doesn't any throw against the opponent's backboard constitute a dribble?

If so, as Cobra pointed out, as soon as the ball hit that backboard a second time, tweet.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by Welpe

When does a dribble become illegal? That should answer your question.

Would you call an illegal dribble if a player holding a ball dribbles once, catches the ball, throws the ball to the floor and then doesn't touch it again?

The second dribble becomes illegal as soon as the dribble occurs. When the ball is pushed to the floor is when the violation occurs.

Sometimes pushing the ball to the floor could be a dribble or it could be a pass. There are other times where it is obviously a dribble. If there are no other players within 20 feet of the guy with the ball and he pushes the ball straight down to the floor it is pretty obvious that he is not trying to pass the ball. So yes, it is a violation as soon as he dribbles the ball. Touching the ball after dribbling is not required for it to be a violation.

[WreckRef]

Originally Posted by Cobra

The second dribble becomes illegal as soon as the dribble occurs. When the ball is pushed to the floor is when the violation occurs.

Sometimes pushing the ball to the floor could be a dribble or it could be a pass. There are other times where it is obviously a dribble. If there are no other players within 20 feet of the guy with the ball and he pushes the ball straight down to the floor it is pretty obvious that he is not trying to pass the ball. So yes, it is a violation as soon as he dribbles the ball. Touching the ball after dribbling is not required for it to be a violation.

Is this correct? I don't see how people being near or not near the player should make a difference. I don't see how you can call it one way one time then another way another time just because there is a player near the player with the ball.

From what you are saying, if A1 standing near A2 dribbles, catches their dribble then pushes the ball towards the floor then A2 takes it, it's not a double dribble. But if A1, with no one near him dribbles, catches then pushes the ball towards the floor you would call a double dribble as soon as they push it. Is that what you are saying?

Wouldn't that also mean that if A1 was going the wrong way, started a lay in, you would call the double dribble BEFORE it hits the backboard? That again does not seem correct.