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Mon Feb 13, 2006, 10:38pm
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9-11-01 http://www.fallenheroesfund.org/fallenheroes/index.php http://www.carydufour.com/marinemoms...llowribbon.jpg 
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Mon Feb 13, 2006, 10:48pm
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So when exactly did universities switch from teaching students how to think to telling them what to think?
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"It is not enough to do your best; you must know what to do, and then do your best." - W. Edwards Deming
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Tue Feb 14, 2006, 08:16am
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I think it's actually kind of funny. (I mean, it's not that different from the Seinfeld line at the top of the thread.) But it's also not at all sportsmanlike. I would discourage it, too.
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Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only!
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Tue Feb 14, 2006, 09:14am
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A Can of Worms Here
I am not a member of the political correctness police.But would like to address the insinuation of the chant. I mean basically they are chanting " you're a f@@@ot".
Would we think it's funny to chant "you're a n@@@#". I am trying to not get all heavy and monitor others thought but I I didn't think it was funny or clever. We have players in our area from India who wear thisTurban like headgear, for religious purposes, would we think it funny to chant " you're a raghead" Funny and clever is when the Cameron Crazies read the paper when the other team is being introduced. Funny and clever is during Cal Bears beating the Standford Cardinal in football, the Standford student section chants " We'll still hire you ." And no I am not gay and I would go see Brokeback Mountain about the same time as the aliens land in my backyard.
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Tue Feb 14, 2006, 12:11pm
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Keep in mind that those same Cameron Crazies who read the paper also got in trouble a few years back for some not-quite-so-cute stuff...Maryland had a player who was accused of participating in the hold-up of a pizza delivery guy, so when he was introduced at Cameron, pizza boxes were hurled onto the court...caused a delay and started game with a T...back in the late 80's, NC State (I think) had a player accused of rape and when he was introduced the Crazies rained panties onto the court...
Not sure what that has to do with Dan's original post, but I didn't like the insinuation that Cameron Crazies are "good" fans while the DogPound fans are "bad"...
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Tue Feb 14, 2006, 12:19pm
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The chant is a unfair taunt. It is not acceptable if you have shirts that say "F@@K Duke" or "F@@K J.J." I agree that a university is a place for thinking, but not all speech is considered appropriate. You could not say those things at a job, why at a game where people are supposed to learn about life. Free Speech only protects individiduals from government action, not watching a sporting event. You can get thrown out for cursing, why is this different?
Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
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Tue Feb 14, 2006, 12:22pm
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Give me a break...You do not have the right to go through life without being offended!
Given the stuff you see happen at college and pro sporting events these days this is pretty tame. IMO, if all the are doing is a chant, and not stirring up a physical confrontation...leave them alone. They are not delaying the games...they are not putting anyone in harms way. Sure, they may sound stupid...but people sound stupid all the time. There has to be more pressing things for the school officials to worry about than this.
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I didn't say it was your fault...I said I was going to blame you.
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Tue Feb 14, 2006, 12:26pm
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Quote:
How about the teaching moment someone is being given...explaining how SOME view the chant as inappropriate and the people chanting as insensative?
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I didn't say it was your fault...I said I was going to blame you.
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Tue Feb 14, 2006, 03:45pm
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Quote:
Colleges and universities in general have increasingly felt a need to act in loco parentis because of deaths associated with drinking and drugging. There is, I believe, every reason to think that private colleges have wide lattitude to set standards of behavior in their facilities and for their students. For public schools, well, that's where the 1st Ammendment comes in. That being said, does chanting 'Brokeback Mountain' "not [stir] up a physical confrontation"? That strikes me as a judgment call. Would chanting 'Fat boy!' engender a fight between the thins and the fats? Maybe. I don't think adults should or can be protected from being dissed. It's part of the fabric of life - and governments adjudicating these things are more dangeous to the public good than the dissing itself. Any homosexual who feels the sting of being disliked should measure his or her pain versus that of Steve Kerr, who had to endure fans chanting PLO; the elder Kerr was killed by the PLO, I believe, while he was in the service of the U.S. goverment. [Edited by assignmentmaker on Feb 14th, 2006 at 04:54 PM]
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Sarchasm: the gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the recipient.
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Tue Feb 14, 2006, 04:25pm
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We will have to agree to disagree.
I can accept the fact that some would be offended by the chant. Just as I can accept that some would take exception to the chant of "fat boy"...and I have struggled with weight issues most of my life so I have heard it off and on since junior high. The difference is that I adopted the philosophy that only one person on the face of this earth had any influence on how I felt...and that person is ME. How I react to certain situations (events, comments, etc.) is totally under my control. Officials are ridiculed or criticized by someone in the stands every time we take the floor. Yet we do not clear the gym if someone calls us a name. I view part of the problem at universities (public and private) to be the measures those institutions have taken to control what happens in their facilities and amoung their student bodies. Why stop at this chant? The actions of every person in the facility reflects on the institution. Why not tell them they cannot jingle their keys when the outcome is obviously decided...it could be an insult to the athletic ability of the opposing team. Why not tell them they cannot try to distract a player attempting a free-throw...they may suffer momentary humiliation by missing a key free throw attempt. We could go down this silly path ad naseum. IMO, everyone would be much happier with their life if they accept the fact that others will be rude and uncaring when it comes to their emotional welfare.
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I didn't say it was your fault...I said I was going to blame you.
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Tue Feb 14, 2006, 04:27pm
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Why say anything in the spirit of making another human being feel bad? A real Basketball Fan appreciates a great play whether it's made by his Team or the opponent. Those kids aren't Fans. They're just young and dumb. I'd ignore 'em, wait until a gay doctor saves their life or a friend is kiled in action. Then the BBM and PLO chants seem to be a lot less smart.
That being said.....Larry S + Dan-Ref......you guys seem a bit defensive of your masculinity all of a sudden.
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Tue Feb 14, 2006, 04:35pm
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Quote:
Maybe they just have a problem with silly/idiotic rules.
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I didn't say it was your fault...I said I was going to blame you.
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Tue Feb 14, 2006, 04:54pm
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Quote:
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Tue Feb 14, 2006, 04:59pm
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Quote:
 Another oddity in life...someone struggles with drug issues or depression and people (doctors) have sympathy and want to help...someone struggles with weight issues and people (doctors) say "Just lose weight".
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I didn't say it was your fault...I said I was going to blame you.
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Tue Feb 14, 2006, 05:43pm
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While this discussion would be a lot more interesting if it involved a public university (like Maryland - which has had its' own problems w/ what type of behavior can/cannot happen at the men's games), this specific situation is made easier to understand when you take into account that Gonzaga is a Jesuit University. They have the right to hire faculty/staff, admit students, and allow conduct that is congruent with it's mission and values as an institution of higher learning.
I'm going to assume that most religious-based educational institutions will have a difficult time allowing people to question/criticize the sexuality, religious beliefs, gender, race, etc. of an individual en masse in a public forum. There are any number of tactics and antics that students can pull on an opponent at a Gonzaga basketball game, but this chant isn't one of them. Gonzaga Univ. certainly has the right to enact and enforce it's own policies. The beauty of all of this, is that college is a time for people to figure out what is right and wrong; a time to think about what their impact on their community should be; and to learn by trial and error what is appropriate. By all means - question, try, do, think, act, and most important....learn. Now can we get back to the more important questions of basketball?.....Can C reach out of his primary when there is a "must get" call.....
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