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Old Thu Jul 10, 2008, 07:49pm
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How did they get this wrong??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxL-khe_E0o

The thing that gets me, at first, what is the 3rd base coach chirping about? His R2 is safe at third. Hes saying something to U3 right as the play ends. What else did he want?

And watch the umpire at 2nd, hes looking away when he makes the out call, very casually, as if the out is on the force. The fielder tags R1 anyways to be sure, but umpire was looking away.

From what I could find out on the net, seems no one saw the actual tag of R1, so they had to leave him at 2nd
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Old Thu Jul 10, 2008, 08:00pm
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Finally....the smartest announcers ever are working at FSN. "That is the stupidest call I have ever seen at the AAA level." Yep.
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Old Thu Jul 10, 2008, 08:21pm
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My guess is he is arguing that it should not have been IFF, his runner to 3B beat the throw and it should be bases loaded.

The umpire at 2B must not think IFF was called on his initial call and missed seeing the tag.
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Old Thu Jul 10, 2008, 09:20pm
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Wouldn't it be three outs (if needed).

IFF, R2 retouch at 2nd, R1 tag at 2nd.

I'm thinking R2 left 2nd before the ball was touched, caught, fell to the ground. Isn't that when base runners then can advance at their own risk?
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Old Thu Jul 10, 2008, 09:31pm
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U1 is the only one who doesn't echo the IFF call and then calls R1 out on the force. I would gather he was a little confused.
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Old Thu Jul 10, 2008, 10:31pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_12
Wouldn't it be three outs (if needed).

IFF, R2 retouch at 2nd, R1 tag at 2nd.

I'm thinking R2 left 2nd before the ball was touched, caught, fell to the ground. Isn't that when base runners then can advance at their own risk?
The ball was not caught. There is no need to retouch at second.

The first base umpire is John Brammer, first year AAA guy. He does look a little confused.
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Old Thu Jul 10, 2008, 10:37pm
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If U1 didn't realize IFF was called, he was sleeping BIG TIME.

Even so, how they got together and had the batter out but R2 not I will never know. That is a gross, gross, gross miss.
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Old Thu Jul 10, 2008, 11:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_12
I'm thinking R2 left 2nd before the ball was touched, caught, fell to the ground. Isn't that when base runners then can advance at their own risk?
Runners can advance at their own risk at any time. They are not required to wait for a catch or touch. That's why it's at their own risk. The runners are betting on the outcome that the ball will not be caught. That is the risk. They are at risk of the fielder catching the ball and doubling them off.
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Old Fri Jul 11, 2008, 02:28am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger49
U1 is the only one who doesn't echo the IFF call and then calls R1 out on the force. I would gather he was a little confused.
If an IFF rule is called, all forces are off.
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Old Fri Jul 11, 2008, 05:58am
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runner going from 1st to 2nd was tagged out .... Im not getting why they left that runner there at all ever....
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Old Fri Jul 11, 2008, 07:24am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcg NC2Ablu
runner going from 1st to 2nd was tagged out .... Im not getting why they left that runner there at all ever....
Because while we (and the announcing crew, etc) saw the tag, no umpire saw the tag, so he "wasn't" tagged.

Why were the umpires in B/D with R1/R2?
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Old Fri Jul 11, 2008, 08:09am
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In possible bunt situation with runners on first and second, MiLB umpires are taught to slide over. Any play at third will usually be close, the play at first will be wide open, normally.
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Old Fri Jul 11, 2008, 08:57am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Tyler
If an IFF rule is called, all forces are off.
Yes, that's the point of the rule. Imagine if we didn't have IFF
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Old Fri Jul 11, 2008, 09:39am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins
Because while we (and the announcing crew, etc) saw the tag, no umpire saw the tag, so he "wasn't" tagged.

Why were the umpires in B/D with R1/R2?
I have never seen that, but often thought B/D would make more sense if there was a double steal.
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Old Fri Jul 11, 2008, 10:37am
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This ruling is puzzling, because obviously at least one umpire knew what was going on: the ump at 3B was aware that the force was off, and that runners could advance at their own risk.

I think that DG and tiger49 are correct that after wrongly calling the out on the force play at 2B, the ump turned away and didn't see the tag (and neither did the other umps). Then, when the umps were sorting things out, they left the runner at 2B since (they thought) he hadn't been tagged. ("Yeah, I know I called him out, but you should have tagged him anyway" . . . "But I did tag him" . . . "Well, I wasn't looking since I had already called him out.")

Funny thing was, if the 2B ump thought there was a force at 2B, he must have thought the previous play at 3B was also a force. But he also must have seen the safe call even though the throw clearly beat the runner.

Kudos to the announcers for calling a spade a spade.
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