Going the wrong way...

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by Cobra

The second dribble becomes illegal as soon as the dribble occurs. When the ball is pushed to the floor is when the violation occurs.

Sometimes pushing the ball to the floor could be a dribble or it could be a pass. There are other times where it is obviously a dribble. If there are no other players within 20 feet of the guy with the ball and he pushes the ball straight down to the floor it is pretty obvious that he is not trying to pass the ball. So yes, it is a violation as soon as he dribbles the ball. Touching the ball after dribbling is not required for it to be a violation.

Wrong.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by SamIAm

Wrong.

Why is that wrong?

The definiton of a dribble is "ball movement caused by a player in control who bats (intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)) or pushes the ball to the floor once or several times." Dribbling is pushing the ball to the floor, it doesn't have anything to do with the ball coming back up.

Originally Posted by WreckRef

Is this correct? I don't see how people being near or not near the player should make a difference. I don't see how you can call it one way one time then another way another time just because there is a player near the player with the ball.

From what you are saying, if A1 standing near A2 dribbles, catches their dribble then pushes the ball towards the floor then A2 takes it, it's not a double dribble. But if A1, with no one near him dribbles, catches then pushes the ball towards the floor you would call a double dribble as soon as they push it. Is that what you are saying?

You've got to make a decision if it's a dribble or a pass. Sometimes a bounce pass and a dribble can look similar. You've got to decide which one it is. If the ball is immediately controlled by another player then you can assume it was a pass.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Cobra

Why is that wrong?

The definiton of a dribble is "ball movement caused by a player in control who bats (intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)) or pushes the ball to the floor once or several times." Dribbling is pushing the ball to the floor, it doesn't have anything to do with the ball coming back up.



You've got to make a decision if it's a dribble or a pass. Sometimes a bounce pass and a dribble can look similar. You've got to decide which one it is. If the ball is immediately controlled by another player then you can assume it was a pass.

While you're right about when the dribble begins, I don't foresee ever making this call before the "dribble" re-contacts the dribbler. There's no way I know if it's a dribble before that happens. 97 times out of 98, you'll be right and no one will care. The one time, however, I actually blow my whistle when it hits the backboard, the ball will carom off the rim and B2 will retrieve it and have a wide open shot that I have to take away.

No reason not to wait a half second until the "shooter" re-contacts the ball.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Cobra

The second dribble becomes illegal as soon as the dribble occurs. When the ball is pushed to the floor is when the violation occurs.

Sometimes pushing the ball to the floor could be a dribble or it could be a pass. There are other times where it is obviously a dribble. If there are no other players within 20 feet of the guy with the ball and he pushes the ball straight down to the floor it is pretty obvious that he is not trying to pass the ball. So yes, it is a violation as soon as he dribbles the ball. Touching the ball after dribbling is not required for it to be a violation.

I have never seen anyone try and make that distinction and neither am I. I'm not going to make a decision on these type of plays until the player touches the ball again.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

While you're right about when the dribble begins, I don't foresee ever making this call before the "dribble" re-contacts the dribbler. There's no way I know if it's a dribble before that happens. 97 times out of 98, you'll be right and no one will care. The one time, however, I actually blow my whistle when it hits the backboard, the ball will carom off the rim and B2 will retrieve it and have a wide open shot that I have to take away.

No reason not to wait a half second until the "shooter" re-contacts the ball.

Well yeah, you've got to be sure that it isn't a pass before you call the violation. I gave the example of a player standing, with no one anywhere near him, who pushes the ball straight to the floor. He realizes that it is his second dribble and doesn't touch the ball on the way up. Obviously he isn't trying to pass the ball.

Just call the violation as soon as you're sure it isn't a pass. Just because the player who dribbled the ball a second time doesn't touch the ball again doesn't mean that it wasn't a dribble. This is also important because one may need to know when the ball actually became dead. The ball became dead when the player let go of the ball even though it may have taken the official a second or two to determine if it was a dribble or a pass.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Cobra

Well yeah, you've got to be sure that it isn't a pass before you call the violation. I gave the example of a player standing, with no one anywhere near him, who pushes the ball straight to the floor. He realizes that it is his second dribble and doesn't touch the ball on the way up. Obviously he isn't trying to pass the ball.

Just call the violation as soon as you're sure it isn't a pass. Just because the player who dribbled the ball a second time doesn't touch the ball again doesn't mean that it wasn't a dribble. This is also important because one may need to know when the ball actually became dead. The ball became dead when the player let go of the ball even though it may have taken the official a second or two to determine if it was a dribble or a pass.

If the player lets it bounce after pushing it to the floor, I'm not calling it until he touches it. If he never touches it again, even better.

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If the player lets it bounce after pushing it to the floor, I'm not calling it until he touches it. If he never touches it again, even better.

+1

What about this one. A1 accidently dribbles to B's basket. They gather the ball with two hands and lay it off the backboard and into the basket. Are you going to call the double dribble here cobra and wipe off the two points A scored for the other tea, by calling a double dribble. I think not. They would have to miss the shot and retouch teh ball to get that call.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If the player lets it bounce after pushing it to the floor, I'm not calling it until he touches it. If he never touches it again, even better.

+1

That's the only way I've ever been thought to officiate the play and the only way I've seen it officiated.

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by Cobra

Why is that wrong?

The definiton of a dribble is "ball movement caused by a player in control who bats (intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)) or pushes the ball to the floor once or several times." Dribbling is pushing the ball to the floor, it doesn't have anything to do with the ball coming back up.

You've got to make a decision if it's a dribble or a pass. Sometimes a bounce pass and a dribble can look similar. You've got to decide which one it is. If the ball is immediately controlled by another player then you can assume it was a pass.

What Snaqs and APG said and A1 might bounce the ball off his foot in such a manner that B1 - B5 could get an easy basket.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

+1

What about this one. A1 accidently dribbles to B's basket. They gather the ball with two hands and lay it off the backboard and into the basket. Are you going to call the double dribble here cobra and wipe off the two points A scored for the other tea, by calling a double dribble. I think not. They would have to miss the shot and retouch teh ball to get that call.

Exactly.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Cobra

The second dribble becomes illegal as soon as the dribble occurs. When the ball is pushed to the floor is when the violation occurs.

Sometimes pushing the ball to the floor could be a dribble or it could be a pass. There are other times where it is obviously a dribble. If there are no other players within 20 feet of the guy with the ball and he pushes the ball straight down to the floor it is pretty obvious that he is not trying to pass the ball. So yes, it is a violation as soon as he dribbles the ball. Touching the ball after dribbling is not required for it to be a violation.

This is not correct. Should the guy realize before catching the 2nd dribble that he's about to violate, and doesn't actually catch or touch the ball, all you have is a very slow and very bad pass.

[Damian]

If A1 shoots at B's goal, misses and catches the rebound even without dribbling, he probably lifted his pivot foot on the try(not shot). If the goal is considered the floor, then he has traveled.

[just another ref]

A1 is holding the ball. He has used his dribble. B1 steps up and the official starts his closely guarded count. A1 looks to pass but no teammate is open. As the count approaches 5, A1, in his panic, forgets and pushes the ball straight to the floor, and tries to go around. Before A1 has a chance to touch it again, B1 slaps the ball out of bounds. What's the call?

[APG]

Originally Posted by just another ref

A1 is holding the ball. He has used his dribble. B1 steps up and the official starts his closely guarded count. A1 looks to pass but no teammate is open. As the count approaches 5, A1, in his panic, forgets and pushes the ball straight to the floor, and tries to go around. Before A1 has a chance to touch it again, B1 slaps the ball out of bounds. What's the call?

OOB on B

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

OOB on B

Let's have a poll. Couple more guys on my side this time.

I have actually seen this call.

A1 dribbled into the corner, then picked up the ball looking into the post. He wanted to make the entry pass, but never got the look he wanted. After several seconds, he gave up the idea, then turned and put the ball on the floor again.........and then remembered he had no dribble. He pushed the ball to the floor, then buried his face in both hands and mumbled something. Official whistled an illegal dribble violation.

Correct, in my opinion.