DOG v T

[McMac]

In a GJV game tonight, late in the 4th quarter, A has FCELTI. B is guarding the throw-in flailing her arms coming over the boundary line. I blow the whistle for the violation and on her next (last) swipe after the whistle, she contacts the ball. As I go to the table, the touching of the ball goes through my head for a split second before "game management" pops into my head. B was down 20 and there were maybe 2 minutes left. So I called the DOG and moved on.

I know by rule (after looking at my books to double check) that touching or dislodging the ball is a player T along with a DOG if not previously warned. But she touched the ball after the whistle had blown, making the ball dead. She didn't touch the player (therefore not intentional or flagrant). So right call, wrong call, or the "game management" call which I hate, loathe, and despise, or other comments?

[just another ref]

Right call, because, as you point out, the ball was dead. Only way it could be anything else is if you ruled the touch after the whistle to be a deliberate, unsporting act, which seems unlikely based on the rest of your description.

[bob jenkins]

It was 2 separate "swipes" (as I read the play). You correctly penalized the first and ignored the second.

If it was 1 swipe, and your whistle was so quick as to recognize the breaking of the plane before the act continued to touch the ball, then enforce the T.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by McMac

In a GJV game tonight, late in the 4th quarter, A has FCELTI. B is guarding the throw-in flailing her arms coming over the boundary line. I blow the whistle for the violation and on her next (last) swipe after the whistle, she contacts the ball. As I go to the table, the touching of the ball goes through my head for a split second before "game management" pops into my head. B was down 20 and there were maybe 2 minutes left. So I called the DOG and moved on.

I know by rule (after looking at my books to double check) that touching or dislodging the ball is a player T along with a DOG if not previously warned. But she touched the ball after the whistle had blown, making the ball dead. She didn't touch the player (therefore not intentional or flagrant). So right call, wrong call, or the "game management" call which I hate, loathe, and despise, or other comments?

Right call, but I have to ask you: when does the ball become dead?

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Right call, but I have to ask you: when does the ball become dead?

When it gets shot?

[McMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Right call, but I have to ask you: when does the ball become dead?

By rule on the breaking of the plane violation, but if the breaking is immediately followed by contact with the ball or dislodging (T) or contact with the body (Int) we upgrade to the appropriate foul.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by McMac

By rule on the breaking of the plane violation, but if the breaking is immediately followed by contact with the ball or dislodging (T) or contact with the body (Int) we upgrade to the appropriate foul.

"Upgrade" is not a happy choice. We upgrade a common foul to INT or flagrant. We can't upgrade a violation to a foul: they're two completely different kinds, not different degrees of one kind.

We ignore the violation when calling the T or INT for contact with the ball/thrower.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mbyron

We ignore the violation when calling the T or INT for contact with the ball/thrower.

Not really, as breaking the plane is a violation that comes with a warning. And we give the warning (if it hasn't been given yet).

This is just a weird one.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by McMac

By rule on the breaking of the plane violation, but if the breaking is immediately followed by contact with the ball or dislodging (T) or contact with the body (Int) we upgrade to the appropriate foul.

My point was the whistle is not what makes the ball dead.

Bob already said it, but if the swipe you are calling the violation for doesn't hit the ball, then just stick with the violation. If it does, then go straight to the T. Having the whistle sound prior to the actual touching of the ball helps to sell it, but isn't necessary.