Upgrading

[just another ref]

On the issue of blood and how much it is a factor. I was waiting for somebody to point out that nosebleeds have been know to occur spontaneously, all by themselves for no apparent reason.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Situation: BV game, we're at A's basket, and A is up by 25 with maybe 4 minutes to play. The boys are getting a little chippy, but we've been calling fouls consistently for displacement, bumping that creates disadvantage, etc. The game is by no means out of control.

I'm C, with the ball on the other side, and right in front of me A1 goes past B1 and elbows him in the nose. I see the whole play, and I've got the foul before B1 hits the floor (he ended up with a bloody nose, but I didn't see that till later). I report the foul on A1, and it's his 5th, so he's done.

As I report the foul, B coach says, "Pretty hard foul." I agree. As I look back on this, I probably should have upgraded it. I hardly ever see this kind of thing in my games, so I didn't consider upgrading at the time.

Thoughts? If you had been my partner and had seen the bloody nose (even if you hadn't seen the foul) would you have asked me about upgrading?

Whenever a guy goes down in a weird way, I always close in to see up close and to prevent other stuff from starting. Perhaps you would have seen blood if you closed down?

I might have asked you about upgrading if I knew you didn't know about the blood.

[tref]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Whenever a guy goes down in a weird way, I always close in to see up close and to prevent other stuff from starting. Perhaps you would have seen blood if you closed down?

I might have asked you about upgrading if I knew you didn't know about the blood.

What does blood have to do with the act?

I've seen plenty players take a charge or get blasted by a legal screen & the result was blood everywhere. Blood alone isnt enough for an upgrade...
'"we've got a bleeder."

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by tref

What does blood have to do with the act?

I've seen plenty players take a charge or get blasted by a legal screen & the result was blood everywhere. Blood alone isnt enough for an upgrade...
'"we've got a bleeder."

Taking a charge and an off-ball elbow to the nose are very different fouls.

[tref]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Taking a charge and an off-ball elbow to the nose are very different fouls.

Mos Def!! My point is the act itself is what we should rule on not simply because a player is bleeding.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by tref

Mos Def!! My point is the act itself is what we should rule on not simply because a player is bleeding.

Smitty said it right: an elbow to the nose is not a basketball play.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Situation: BV game, we're at A's basket, and A is up by 25 with maybe 4 minutes to play. The boys are getting a little chippy, but we've been calling fouls consistently for displacement, bumping that creates disadvantage, etc. The game is by no means out of control.

I'm C, with the ball on the other side, and right in front of me A1 goes past B1 and elbows him in the nose. I see the whole play, and I've got the foul before B1 hits the floor (he ended up with a bloody nose, but I didn't see that till later). I report the foul on A1, and it's his 5th, so he's done.

As I report the foul, B coach says, "Pretty hard foul." I agree. As I look back on this, I probably should have upgraded it. I hardly ever see this kind of thing in my games, so I didn't consider upgrading at the time.

Thoughts? If you had been my partner and had seen the bloody nose (even if you hadn't seen the foul) would you have asked me about upgrading?

I think this says it all. If you saw the whole play and are still second guessing yourself, then you're questioning your own judgement.

I would say maybe a couple of things might help. Take your time to report it, this might include calling a partner over just to think outloud with him, to give yourself a moment to decide if an upgrade is necessary.

Or take your time on the spot of the foul, making sure players are alright, replaying the play in your mind and deciding to upgrade or not.

Secondly, I wouldn't lose sleep over it, the fact that you haven't dealt with too many of these situations is a good thing. Now you have it under your belt and will hopefully be able to access that information next time you see it.