Starting the clock mechanic

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Your stance on mechanics matters such as these is well known. And I don't necessary disagree with it being that way over there.
But gee, Rut, denigrating what other states do and why they do it ("robotic...emulate a picture...too much time on their hands...nothing better to worry about...") =
Aw, forget it.

Not sure why you are so sensitive about it? You mentioned me in your post, I did not say anything about what others did in my original comments.

I have just never heard anyone care about something like this as you stated. Of course you will have people at camps tweak a mechanic or hand position, but not to the extent they follow the picture. I saw a guy yesterday in the prelim game give a hand check signal above his head, so that would get changed if that guy went to a camp I am sure. Actually the pictures have changed over the years and I almost never see a single official signal a bonus foul for example with hands straight across in the "Jesus" pose. Or I hardly ever see a "blocking" signal given with out "fists" at the bottom. I am sure there are officials or clinicians that worry about those things, but it is not that common. And if I am reading some of the other responses, I do not seem to be alone. And the places where people are making comments are certainly not from my state or region of the country. Not sure why saying that would upset you? Then again I guess we just have a different focus on what officiating is I guess.

Peace

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have just never heard anyone care about something like this as you stated. Of course you will have people at camps tweak a mechanic or hand position, but not to the extent they follow the picture...I almost never see a single official signal a bonus foul for example with hands straight across in the "Jesus" pose. Or I hardly ever see a "blocking" signal given with out "fists" at the bottom. I am sure there are officials or clinicians that worry about those things, but it is not that common...

Peace

As a matter of fact, the Fla. HS Athletic Assn. REQUIRES the open hand chop as well as open hands on hips for a block signal, the "Jesus" pose, and counting with an open hand. I have personally heard state evaluators insist that deviating from these (or any) FED mechanics or using college mechanics WILL keep you from advancing through the state tournament. Maybe clinicians in your part of the country don't find it critical, but the FHSAA, which has about 20,000 officials under it's influence, most definitely does.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

As a matter of fact, the Fla. HS Athletic Assn. REQUIRES the open hand chop as well as open hands on hips for a block signal, the "Jesus" pose, and counting with an open hand. I have personally heard state evaluators insist that deviating from these (or any) FED mechanics or using college mechanics WILL keep you from advancing through the state tournament. Maybe clinicians in your part of the country don't find it critical, but the FHSAA, which has about 20,000 officials under it's influence, most definitely does.

Well I am a clinician in my part of the state (or just one that can work anywhere really). No we do not give a damn about this to that extent. Do we want officials to "stop the clock" or use the proper amount of fingers for directional pointing? Of course we do. But it has never kept someone away from working the State Finals or deep into the playoffs. It might be one of those things certain clinicians might focus on during a camp and usually that is if they have not much else to say. I have also never heard an assignor not hire someone to a game based on these things either. Actually there is some disagreement with certain assignors what is important to work for them.

It must be noted that this is not one of these things that is mentioned by the sports administrators that assign all the playoff games. And in basketball there are over 6000 officials (over 15,000 in all sports). We have two administrators, one for each gender and neither has ever claimed to have held someone back for these issues. Now do they have things that get them upset when we do not do them? Of course they do, but the biggest complaint we heard out of the IHSA office was not giving a preliminary signal at the spot of the foul. And it was claimed by many those assignors or clinicians that this was not something most cared about personally. We wanted people that could officiate and not get caught up in some mechanic that was not followed to the letter.

And personally someone that has worked a State Final in two other sports, I never followed to the letter every mechanic or signal and still got to those levels as an official. A great example is in baseball the signal for a strike is basically the hammer signal. I have never done that and when I was in the State Finals, no one commented once about that I did not follow the mechanic. What they did want is for us to be positioned properly or to call things that were in our area or move to the proper area mechanically (which may have not been what is in the NF books since we do not use their mechanics). And no one commented once about what we did or did not do in football when I worked in the same capacity.

Peace

[Raymond]

I've never gone from 12 to 6. Doesn't look good to me.

[Welpe]

We were taught to go 12 to 3 (or 12 to 9 I guess) with an open hand.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Welpe

We were taught to go 12 to 3 (or 12 to 9 I guess) with an open hand.

Same here. I've never even heard 12 to 6 before (and I don't think that's what's indicated in the pictogram either).

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Welpe

We were taught to go 12 to 3 (or 12 to 9 I guess) with an open hand.

I probably do 12 to 9:30...pm of course.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

As a matter of fact, the Fla. HS Athletic Assn. REQUIRES the open hand chop as well as open hands on hips for a block signal, the "Jesus" pose, and counting with an open hand. I have personally heard state evaluators insist that deviating from these (or any) FED mechanics or using college mechanics WILL keep you from advancing through the state tournament. Maybe clinicians in your part of the country don't find it critical, but the FHSAA, which has about 20,000 officials under it's influence, most definitely does.

And, yet, that edict does not seem to inhibit many from earning style points.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

And, yet, that edict does not seem to inhibit many from earning style points.

Hmmmmmmmmm!!!!

Peace

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

And, yet, that edict does not seem to inhibit many from earning style points.

In my experience, deviating slightly is not nearly as bad as using college mechanics. One of our very best has been passed over repeatedly and told point blank he'll never advance to the state tourney as long as he uses college mechanics. Sad and silly...but thats the way it is.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

In my experience, deviating slightly is not nearly as bad as using college mechanics. One of our very best has been passed over repeatedly and told point blank he'll never advance to the state tourney as long as he uses college mechanics. Sad and silly...but thats the way it is.

What is the college mechanic? I did not know there was a difference honestly.

Peace

[Bad Zebra]

Several that Im aware of...two hand reporting for fouls (college). Arm and hammer (college) on a foul instead of straight up with fist. Open palm for EVERY out of bounds (or any whistle other than foul). Fingers out to side at C when administring fouls. Those are the ones I've heard mentioned specifically. I'm sure there's more.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

Several that Im aware of...two hand reporting for fouls (college). Arm and hammer on a foul instead of straight up with fist (college). Open palm for EVERY out of bounds (or any whistle other than foul). Fingers out to side at C when administring fouls. Those are the ones I've heard mentioned specifically. I'm sure there's more.

Foul reporting area. Walk-and-talk vs stationary reporting.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

Several that Im aware of...two hand reporting for fouls (college). Arm and hammer (college) on a foul instead of straight up with fist. Open palm for EVERY out of bounds (or any whistle other than foul). Fingers out to side at C when administring fouls. Those are the ones I've heard mentioned specifically. I'm sure there's more.

OK, I did not recall anyone was talking about two hand reporting. I thought we were talking about arm position on "counting the basket?"

Women's college goes table side on foul switching, are we going to consider doing that a college mechanic too (actually where it came from BTW)?

What if someone is a college quite (Men's) a bit and they forget to go opposite table like they are used to doing, are they operating college mechanics too? BTW that happened to me on Saturday and we filled in when it happened. We laughed about it in the locker room.

Peace

[JRutledge]

I also went and looked at the CCA Men's Mechanics for example and almost every signal that both the NF or CCA Men's shares is exactly the same. Of course the CCA has more signals, but the signals are almost the same. So I would ask those in any state that insisted that these were "college mechanics" to show where do they have evidence of that. Now maybe Women's basketball shows some different signals in style, but they also look practically the same. The difference in all of the descriptions are the fact the animation is drawn differently. The NF has a cartoon, the CCA uses a Man and a Woman, which my understanding were created by NASO.

Peace