Starting the clock mechanic

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Honestly, there is no standard that everyone agrees with or even suggests at least at the HS level. I do not even know of one at the college level, at least on the Men's side. This is just one of those personal things that is about style and personal look.
I personally only go from 12 to 3/4 and close my fist. Never been told to do anything different and I like how it looks for me.
Peace

There is a standard that many, except in states that are different, agree with and a standard that is suggested at the HS level -- the standard that our state asks of us, here in the land across the lake from Rut. It's not just one of those personal things that is about style and personal look, rather it is that of the Fed, which is what was first suggested in post #1: five fingers from 12 to 6, ala the faceless Mr. Pictograph guy #1. Fist bumps (said to be a college mechanic) and finger points are corrected to this standard at state camps.
Disclaimer: keep in mind not all states use NFHS mechanics from the Officials' Manual. Ours, and many others just happen to.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Freddy

There is a standard that many, except in states that are different, agree with and a standard that is suggested at the HS level -- the standard that our state asks of us, here in the land across the lake from Rut. It's not just one of those personal things that is about style and personal look, rather it is that of the Fed, which is what was first suggested in post #1: five fingers from 12 to 6, ala the faceless Mr. Pictograph guy #1. Fist bumps (said to be a college mechanic) and finger points are corrected to this standard at state camps.
Disclaimer: keep in mind not all states use NFHS mechanics from the Officials' Manual. Ours, and many others just happen to.

Even if there is a picture in a book, I have never seen anyone require or ask anyone to be that robotic or emulate a picture to the letter. We did not do that even when our state followed NF Mechanics. Maybe there are places that require this, but then they have too much time on their hands or nothing better to worry about as there are so many things no mechanics book covers and I would worry about those things as those things will help you get plays right.

Peace

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Even if there is a picture in a book, I have never seen anyone require or ask anyone to be that robotic or emulate a picture to the letter. We did not do that even when our state followed NF Mechanics. Maybe there are places that require this, but then they have too much time on their hands or nothing better to worry about as there are so many things no mechanics book covers and I would worry about those things as those things will help you get plays right. Peace

Your stance on mechanics matters such as these is well known. And I don't necessary disagree with it being that way over there.
But gee, Rut, denigrating what other states do and why they do it ("robotic...emulate a picture...too much time on their hands...nothing better to worry about...") =
Aw, forget it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Your stance on mechanics matters such as these is well known. And I don't necessary disagree with it being that way over there.
But gee, Rut, denigrating what other states do and why they do it ("robotic...emulate a picture...too much time on their hands...nothing better to worry about...") =
Aw, forget it.

Not sure why you are so sensitive about it? You mentioned me in your post, I did not say anything about what others did in my original comments.

I have just never heard anyone care about something like this as you stated. Of course you will have people at camps tweak a mechanic or hand position, but not to the extent they follow the picture. I saw a guy yesterday in the prelim game give a hand check signal above his head, so that would get changed if that guy went to a camp I am sure. Actually the pictures have changed over the years and I almost never see a single official signal a bonus foul for example with hands straight across in the "Jesus" pose. Or I hardly ever see a "blocking" signal given with out "fists" at the bottom. I am sure there are officials or clinicians that worry about those things, but it is not that common. And if I am reading some of the other responses, I do not seem to be alone. And the places where people are making comments are certainly not from my state or region of the country. Not sure why saying that would upset you? Then again I guess we just have a different focus on what officiating is I guess.

Peace

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have just never heard anyone care about something like this as you stated. Of course you will have people at camps tweak a mechanic or hand position, but not to the extent they follow the picture...I almost never see a single official signal a bonus foul for example with hands straight across in the "Jesus" pose. Or I hardly ever see a "blocking" signal given with out "fists" at the bottom. I am sure there are officials or clinicians that worry about those things, but it is not that common...

Peace

As a matter of fact, the Fla. HS Athletic Assn. REQUIRES the open hand chop as well as open hands on hips for a block signal, the "Jesus" pose, and counting with an open hand. I have personally heard state evaluators insist that deviating from these (or any) FED mechanics or using college mechanics WILL keep you from advancing through the state tournament. Maybe clinicians in your part of the country don't find it critical, but the FHSAA, which has about 20,000 officials under it's influence, most definitely does.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

As a matter of fact, the Fla. HS Athletic Assn. REQUIRES the open hand chop as well as open hands on hips for a block signal, the "Jesus" pose, and counting with an open hand. I have personally heard state evaluators insist that deviating from these (or any) FED mechanics or using college mechanics WILL keep you from advancing through the state tournament. Maybe clinicians in your part of the country don't find it critical, but the FHSAA, which has about 20,000 officials under it's influence, most definitely does.

Well I am a clinician in my part of the state (or just one that can work anywhere really). No we do not give a damn about this to that extent. Do we want officials to "stop the clock" or use the proper amount of fingers for directional pointing? Of course we do. But it has never kept someone away from working the State Finals or deep into the playoffs. It might be one of those things certain clinicians might focus on during a camp and usually that is if they have not much else to say. I have also never heard an assignor not hire someone to a game based on these things either. Actually there is some disagreement with certain assignors what is important to work for them.

It must be noted that this is not one of these things that is mentioned by the sports administrators that assign all the playoff games. And in basketball there are over 6000 officials (over 15,000 in all sports). We have two administrators, one for each gender and neither has ever claimed to have held someone back for these issues. Now do they have things that get them upset when we do not do them? Of course they do, but the biggest complaint we heard out of the IHSA office was not giving a preliminary signal at the spot of the foul. And it was claimed by many those assignors or clinicians that this was not something most cared about personally. We wanted people that could officiate and not get caught up in some mechanic that was not followed to the letter.

And personally someone that has worked a State Final in two other sports, I never followed to the letter every mechanic or signal and still got to those levels as an official. A great example is in baseball the signal for a strike is basically the hammer signal. I have never done that and when I was in the State Finals, no one commented once about that I did not follow the mechanic. What they did want is for us to be positioned properly or to call things that were in our area or move to the proper area mechanically (which may have not been what is in the NF books since we do not use their mechanics). And no one commented once about what we did or did not do in football when I worked in the same capacity.

Peace

[Raymond]

I've never gone from 12 to 6. Doesn't look good to me.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

As a matter of fact, the Fla. HS Athletic Assn. REQUIRES the open hand chop as well as open hands on hips for a block signal, the "Jesus" pose, and counting with an open hand. I have personally heard state evaluators insist that deviating from these (or any) FED mechanics or using college mechanics WILL keep you from advancing through the state tournament. Maybe clinicians in your part of the country don't find it critical, but the FHSAA, which has about 20,000 officials under it's influence, most definitely does.

And, yet, that edict does not seem to inhibit many from earning style points.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

And, yet, that edict does not seem to inhibit many from earning style points.

Hmmmmmmmmm!!!!

Peace

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

And, yet, that edict does not seem to inhibit many from earning style points.

In my experience, deviating slightly is not nearly as bad as using college mechanics. One of our very best has been passed over repeatedly and told point blank he'll never advance to the state tourney as long as he uses college mechanics. Sad and silly...but thats the way it is.

[Adam]

I have never gone from 12 to 6, and it's never been brought up even in the harshest of critiques. I do about 12-9 with a fist.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Freddy

There is a standard that many, except in states that are different, agree with and a standard that is suggested at the HS level -- the standard that our state asks of us, here in the land across the lake from Rut. It's not just one of those personal things that is about style and personal look, rather it is that of the Fed, which is what was first suggested in post #1: five fingers from 12 to 6, ala the faceless Mr. Pictograph guy #1. Fist bumps (said to be a college mechanic) and finger points are corrected to this standard at state camps.
Disclaimer: keep in mind not all states use NFHS mechanics from the Officials' Manual. Ours, and many others just happen to.

I've lived in places like this. Your judgment can be crap as long as you give perfect signals and imitate the pictures in the mechanics manual.

I'd rather spend camp time learning how to get more calls right.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I've lived in places like this. Your judgment can be crap as long as you give perfect signals and imitate the pictures in the mechanics manual.

That's either exaggeration for the sake of illustration, or a place I've never been before.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I'd rather spend camp time learning how to get more calls right.

So, spending camp time learning how to get more calls right while using standard, accepted mechanics would be okay, right?
The two need not be mutually exclusive.

[JRutledge]

Something tells me Packerowner is in deep depression and I am sure he does not care about this topic anymore.

Peace

[packersowner]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Something tells me Packerowner is in deep depression and I am sure he does not care about this topic anymore.

Peace

Tuesday's basketball game can't get here fast enough, I was at the 2007 championship game and that was tough to take, but when you play that bad, I think you feel worse.